Suggestions: Replacing mutable terms.

[sofiaoak]

1. 'Content' & 3. 'Endgame'
- This is about ability do someting, be part of someting. People learn very quick and after some times they don't know what to do anymore. Not because there isn't someting to do, but because they have allready done it too many times. So people have this need to do someting new/interesting. So I think, need of content is about ability do more different kind of stuff and be part of interesting "events" of this world.

2. PvP
- PvP is playing style. Most problems comes because PvP has ability interfere someone else playing style, what is not allways wanted. This creates hate/love kind of atmosphere around of PvP. It's all about having consent of players. No-one can never force playing styles to player what he/she don't wanna. It's all about peoples own free choises what is fun, not about forced choises what someone else think is fun.

There's a problem when people are (generally) complaining about something or arguing where we all seem to use the same terms to mean different things.

We all have different kind of needs and visions what we wanna "this" game to be. What is fun for "me", isn't allways fun for someone else. These needs can be so different, than people have opposite needs, what makes it impossible to create. All what we can do is say our own opinions, how we feel about someting. Words can mean different stuff to different people, because they own different visions.

[micrix]

I think that companies will start realizing that providing a visually stunning world and solid mechanics won't carry a game. As the game engines and underlying game mechanics become more commodotized, more energy will start being put into writing and producing an entertaining and engaging world that's not just a backdrop for players to have their fun in but that draws you in and makes you forget about the little experience bars.

For what i see i have to doubt this. There is no tendency at the big companies to this. All what is in development atm are consumable products. And this is because the most players just consume. This is how it works.

Small and very small companies try something different. But they have very hard times to build stable software with lots of features and having a good design. The later ist the most problem. But good graphics are a part of the immersion. Unfortunately even those small companies fear to remove some typical (but for me annoying) features of mmorpg.

It is a bit out of theme, but the killer no1 of all games is XP. Why not remove it ? Timebased (time since first login, not playtime) advancement combined with rites/missions/exams that allow you to get after a specific time a skill would imho be much better. This goes for combat, crafting and anything else you can imagine as a skill.

The no2 killer are spawns. Why not remove it ? Killing mobs for XP ist the most boring thing i can imagine and a killer of immersion. I can kill one deer for food and mat, thats ok. If i kill the complete herd for XP thats dumb as hell and it would only be fair that i have to wait and starve for one ingame year until some deer come back. If i kill the herd 10 times within one hour all immersion is gone and i feel like a (paying) idiot behind my screen.

The 3rd are levelbased areas. Like WoM in Ryzom. A huge dead area. Nobody plays there. A wasted part of the game and again a loss of immersion. You can see this in many other games.

As long as everybody thinks that a mmo hast to be like every mmo is, nothing will change. Maybe it is because a big company makes more money with 3 games running for 6 month then with one running 5 years. At least this is my opinion.

[kashius]

It is a bit out of theme, but the killer no1 of all games is XP. Why not remove it ? Timebased (time since first login, not playtime) advancement combined with rites/missions/exams that allow you to get after a specific time a skill would imho be much better. This goes for combat, crafting and anything else you can imagine as a skill.

By "since first login", I take it you mean from the first time your char entered the world. You wouldn't have to play the game much to advance. You could just wait until enough time had passed and go take your exam/rite/quest and get what you want. If it were playtime based, then people who don't spend endless hours playing would have a tough time keeping up and advancing.

The no2 killer are spawns. Why not remove it ? Killing mobs for XP ist the most boring thing i can imagine and a killer of immersion. I can kill one deer for food and mat, thats ok. If i kill the complete herd for XP thats dumb as hell and it would only be fair that i have to wait and starve for one ingame year until some deer come back. If i kill the herd 10 times within one hour all immersion is gone and i feel like a (paying) idiot behind my screen.

So instead of paying the monthly subscription to advance your character with the admittedly mindless killing of animals...You think it would be fair to pay the monthly subscription and have your character starve to death for hunting too much? If you turn a game too much into real life, it looses the fun. How much of what you do in your everyday life (besides playing this game) do you think someone would pay to watch/make happen?

Now...while I do agree that grinding gets boring and mob spawns are unrealistic, they make the game work. Staying active and constantly advancing is one of the draws to these types of games (read: killing stuff/gaining xp). Until a system is devised that takes the grinding and false reality out of it comes about, I think hunting and xp are going to be around for a bit.

-Kash-

[micrix]

By "since first login", I take it you mean from the first time your char entered the world. You wouldn't have to play the game much to advance. You could just wait until enough time had passed and go take your exam/rite/quest and get what you want.

Why should i just wait ? What i mean is that i dont want to play for xp, but for fun.

So instead of paying the monthly subscription to advance your character with the admittedly mindless killing of animals...You think it would be fair to pay the monthly subscription and have your character starve to death for hunting too much? If you turn a game too much into real life, it looses the fun. How much of what you do in your everyday life (besides playing this game) do you think someone would pay to watch/make happen?

It is not like that. If you wipe a herd and start to starv you would have to enter a new area to hunt, but you would have learned something. Another thing is that you wont wipe a herd if there is no xp. Probably you would wipe and loot the herd of another farmer for the money. But this would be fun and would drive the game in a unique way. The farming community would hunt you or the police or whoever. Really, actionbased xp is no good

I also did not say that ther shouldnt be action ingame. There still could be bandits, dungeons of deamons, the fortress of a robber-baron, highly aggro animals, even GvG, PvP, racial wars or invasion from outer space. But i want to play for two reasons: 1) Basic work to supply me and the community with food, cloth, weapon and armour. 2) Combat for the fun, exitement or RP, neverever for xp.

But i agree, action based xp will be around for a while.

[kashius]

I see where you are going with that idea. Sounds a lot better now that you clarified a bit. Had a couple things twisted it seems (I did...not you). Keep the hope though, grinding ma one day be a thing of the past.

-Kash-