The Alliance/Council

[glipe]

*laughs* You are mistaking us for the Fyrosian dogs. I'm sorry, forgive me. Old habits die hard sometimes. Yes the Kami work hard to defeat the goo. Do you not try to heal the gash recieved by sword? Does it not fester and rot if you pick and pry at it too much? The Kami try to preserve themselves from their fate as much by fighting the goo as by devouring souls. I must say, the two are the same to them.

So what you are saying is that the body of the Kami is the world of Atys? That they pick and pry at the wound inflicted upon them? If so you may like to rethink your position against them! And devouring souls is it, now!? Why, next you'll be scaring small children with tales of the Shadowragus under the bed!

My point was that the Karavan do nothing to stop the spread of Goo or to get homins to do so, even though they recognise it as a threat!

I have no love for the Kami but I do not delude myself into believing that they would actively harm homins. Also with the Karavan we have on our planet. Both sides seem friendly towards homins and, until I have proof otherwise, why should I rise against one side or the other? I will not be goaded by rumour.

I think what you say is true: old habits die hard. It seems built into the nature of homins that they must fight.

You say these words but you bring no proof. You have your beliefs, I have mine.

Respecting beliefs is one thing. Making sure your belief does not impinge on others is the kindest courtesy one can pay and this seems to have been thrown aside in favour of some sort of holy war between the "gods"! I offer no proof but what your eyes can see, your ears hear and more importantly what your heart feels and mind understands. I am all for proof, but we have none and, until we do, I am unwilling to commit myself to such a fight as brews here. One based on nothing more than smoke and shadows.

I am actively seeking further information for that truth. I look to Fyrosian scholars for that help *a visible shiver crosses over him, an indication that he is not fully comforable with some paths taken*, and what are you doing? You rally homins to supposed peace, and then claim you will kill homin before fighting for a cause? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. If you want to join my cause, then help me find the truth. If not, take your peace far far away and pray for your souls. Oh, I forget, you have no one to pray to. Then you will die without enlightenment.

Hmmm, it seems you have concluded from my previous statement that I will kill homins before fighting for a cause? Of course it makes no sense, I never said that! I propose peace, nothing more, nothing less. I am against the war; either sides version of it, until I have firm proof of where the truth lies. You are the one who said that we must "destroy" the Kami! Yet you then go on to say that you yourself do not have enough information to go on and have to visit scholars to help provide that information. Yet you are still willing to go to war without it!

And then, to cap it all off you attempt to insult my passage to enlightenment! *chuckles* I am not old enough yet to be wise but it seems that my path takes me where yours will not. My enlightenment will come from knowledge, not belief. My wisdom will come from learning and exploring, not destroying and spreading rumour. My soul will find it's peace through homins, not false gods and spirits.

A simple exercise for you. A Karavan, a kami and a homin are standing behind you when suddenly you are hit by a rock. Looking round, you find all three looking innocently at you. The Karavan says the Kami did it, the Kami says the Karavan did it. The homin says he didn't see it happen. Who is to blame?

[oldmess]

A simple exercise for you. A Karavan, a kami and a homin are standing behind you when suddenly you are hit by a rock. Looking round, you find all three looking innocently at you. The Karavan says the Kami did it, the Karavan says the Kami did it. The homin didn't see it happen. Who is to blame?

Clearly, you are to blame for not being faithful enough to know the answer before you even turn around. (j/k).

You're points are well made. Without proof, all you know for sure is that your head hurts and you may not want to turn your back on any of them. Including the homin with the bad eyesight.

[suib0m]

You are the one who said that we must "destroy" the Kami! Yet you then go on to say that you yourself do not have enough information to go on and have to visit scholars to help provide that information. Yet you are still willing to go to war without it!

War is coming regardless of anyone's will. You seem to think that by standing around and doing nothing, you can make the world around you complacent. You are mistaken about the Karavan's efforts to dispose of the goo. You appear to be mistaken about the Karavan's love of hominity. You are mistaken about the coming war. All things I have seen to this point continue to lead me to believe that Ma-Duk will further the consumption of life until nothing is left. This must not happen. Homins I urge you, seek the truth and act upon it! But, I believe you will find, like myself, that he Kami and Ma-Duk have become a threat to us all! Go in peace if you feel you must, but hide far away, for the war is coming and you will fight or you will die, this is simple fact.

Join me in seeking the truth, but do not be blinded by lies! We must prepare for the inevitable. We must prepare for war! Even while trying to find a way to circumvent it.

-- Unnamed Matis

[glipe]

War is coming regardless of anyone's will. You seem to think that by standing around and doing nothing, you can make the world around you complacent. You are mistaken about the Karavan's efforts to dispose of the goo. You appear to be mistaken about the Karavan's love of hominity. You are mistaken about the coming war. All things I have seen to this point continue to lead me to believe that Ma-Duk will further the consumption of life until nothing is left. This must not happen. Homins I urge you, seek the truth and act upon it! But, I believe you will find, like myself, that he Kami and Ma-Duk have become a threat to us all! Go in peace if you feel you must, but hide far away, for the war is coming and you will fight or you will die, this is simple fact.

Join me in seeking the truth, but do not be blinded by lies! We must prepare for the inevitable. We must prepare for war! Even while trying to find a way to circumvent it.

-- Unnamed Matis

Is the old man who sits alone, pondering the mysteries of the universe "doing nothing"? The general who has sent out his scouts and awaits their return? The artist scanning the landscape for perspective? Just because I take no direct action you should not assume I am "doing nothing". I talk to my fellow homins, I find information when and where I can and, above all else, I wait until things become clear enough to make an informed decision rather than rushing in like an overly curious Yubo. I prepare to defend myself and my friends. But I am always prepared for that.

You pledge us to seek truth and not be blinded by lies? I am reminded of an old Zoria phrase..."Remove the plank from your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from your friend's.".

[zyrom]

Let me see here, roughly 50% of Atys Homins Are Kami oriented by
default, about the same for the Karavan.

I hear talk from both side that they Love Homins so much that
they are prepared to exterminate the other half.

We are indeed fortunate that they do not hate Hominkind then.

And you want us to side with one of those ?, based on rumors, halftruths, the posturing of power hungry Courtiers and the words of trigger happy generals ?.

The sentence "The War is comming, and you can do nothing but fight" is an attempt to make it true, There is allways a choice, if we stop believing that, then yes, the outcome is inevitable.

Not selecting a side in a conflict does not mean one is inactive. The argument "If you are not with me you are against" me is a falsehood.

Give us the proof that one side is so corrupt that it will justify the destruction of 50% of Atys population.

There is much talk about war, and little about peace, but even less about afterwards, because there will be an afterwards...

Give us the plan on how a peace can be restored, after we have killed one of the gods and exterminated the opposition, how will we handle the backlash from the bereft population afterwards?, or is that of minor concern?.

If it will take such a destructive war that Atys itself is in danger of destruction, to save it. Then it does not matter if we use the same amount of force to try to heal, and get rid of the
Go that supposedly to poisons Ma-Duk.

And btw how will the Karavan manage to destroy a being that is pure energy? and that is supposed to be a part of Atys itself, would not that also kill Atys ?

An even if we now kill Ma-Duk, it has solved nothing, the Go is still there, as poisonous as ever...

To many grave unanswered questions, and to many loose ends to firmly decide on the correct path of action....

[vguerin]

This has been a pretty decent thread so far... I am glad most are trying a sensible debate.

It should be clear to those that follow Jena, Melinoe is not part of this council...

We keep our ears and eyes open to know which homins Jena can rely on... Actions not words...

Those who "might" join in if it suits them or "if" the words spoken in Jena's behalf are true are nearly as bad as the enemy, they sow seeds of mistrust and uncertainty... Only those that believe in something and work towards that end will be truly prepared. If you're waiting to make a decision, you will be playing catchup when Jena calls for us...
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[bobturke]

This has been a pretty decent thread so far... I am glad most are trying a sensible debate.

It should be clear to those that follow Jena, Melinoe is not part of this council...

We keep our ears and eyes open to know which homins Jena can rely on... Actions not words...

Those who "might" join in if it suits them or "if" the words spoken in Jena's behalf are true are nearly as bad as the enemy, they sow seeds of mistrust and uncertainty... Only those that believe in something and work towards that end will be truly prepared. If you're waiting to make a decision, you will be playing catchup when Jena calls for us...

OOC: yep good thread.

Well i hope when your creating your list of Jena-worthy homin you are striking off any that have ventured into the Prime Roots. The lore tells that Jena forbade entry by homin into the Prime Roots for fear of waking the Dragon. The Karavan appear to obey this command but few seasoned homin do. Even the "devote" followers of Jena.

Perhaps those homin that "might" join this warmongrey would prefer to have more than a rumour as a reason to do so.

[ambika]

OOC: yep good thread.

Well i hope when your creating your list of Jena-worthy homin you are striking off any that have ventured into the Prime Roots. The lore tells that Jena forbade entry by homin into the Prime Roots for fear of waking the Dragon. The Karavan appear to obey this command but few seasoned homin do. Even the "devote" followers of Jena.

Perhaps those homin that "might" join this warmongrey would prefer to have more than a rumour as a reason to do so.

"The homins are forbidden to descend underground in quest of the dragon's lair for fear of stirring its wrath."

It never does state that us Jena-worthy may not go underground to dig mats. Only that it is forbidden to descend underground n quest of the dragon's lair.

[vguerin]

"The homins are forbidden to descend underground in quest of the dragon's lair for fear of stirring its wrath."

It never does state that us Jena-worthy may not go underground to dig mats. Only that it is forbidden to descend underground n quest of the dragon's lair.

It should be noted this bit of lore provided by Melinoe... Ambika is truly a Fyros worthy of all the fruits that Jena will bear for us all...

[mrshad]

The prohibition against travel to the Prime Roots makes no sense in context.
Karavan teleport machines are there, we can only assume that this is implicit sanciton by Jena, through Her priesthood.

We will not seek the dragon, nor will be spread dragon fire over the land.