Pvp, some toughts, some ideas ..

[mrozzy]

First I wanne ask to keep the replies to this constructive, so please dont reply with "the pvp in game xxx was very good and I want it like this in Ryzom". Well, this is not game x, and Ryzom has huge differences if you compare it to both old and new mmo titles, thus the way pvp is handled in this game will need some new ideas and creativity to.

The recent article of JM got me thinking about pvp a bit. I'm currently not really interested in pvp, since the environment is already more then enough for me, but the interaction between the various systems in the game does trigger something in my head, thats why I'm writing this.

First I tried to set some goals, meaning what will make pvp good:
- pvp has to give each type of player a fair chance. A fighter and a mage of an equal level should both have a chance.
- both duels and massive pvp battles shouldn't take to long, but shouldn't be finished in a blink of an eye either
- pvp rules should not affect pve to much

Next I tried to identify some problems that could occur when changes are applied to the way pvp is handled.
- If the damage done in pvp by mages is reduced, the duels between players become more interesting, but in massive pvp battles the healing will compensate to much damage and they will last forever and will be boring as hell.
- If the amount healed is reduced, some big problems occur in pve, and we don't want the devs to rebalence every single thing since this can take months
- Pvp should not be based on luck, but on tactics and skill. If there is to much luck involved, pvp will loose interest.

So, basicly, we need a bit of both, so I tought why not implement something that reduces both healing and damage, but can be turned off to ... So then you find yourself with equipment.

At this point I went down the same road as Archimedes did, and yelled "eureka!!"

Here is what I came up with:

Why not add an extra stat that reduces the magic damage done. I'm not talking about the resistances, since they reduce the damage a bit but mainly reduces the chance a spell lands or not. Also, the current resistances don't affect heal at all and come with the levels gained.
I'm talking about one single stat (or maybe a few) that reduces all magic that affects you by a specific %. For example if your equimpent gives you a 50% damage reduction both the elemental damage recieved as the amount you get healed for is reduced by 50%.

I was thinking the class of the jewels would be something good to be a determining factor for this resistance. I even made up some numbers:
- Basic: 0%/jewel
- Fine: 1%
- Choice: 3%
- Excelent: 5%
- Supreme: 7%

So, wearing a full basic jewel set, will change nothing. You'll be fully healed, but you'll recieve full elemental damage to (so you can use this for pve). If you wear a full supreme jewel set, the damage recieved will be reduced by 70% (so max elemental damage recieved will be something like 900 damage, but the heals recieved will be very limited .. this is good for duels and solo fighting). In big pvp battles you'll need to make a choice, probly based on the way the teams are made up.

Adding to this, it could be a good protection for harvesters and something good to balance solo fighting (this stat could affect the special attack from the mobs to, so a solo fighter still is able to stand a chance).

Thats it, feel free to comment!

[aylwyne]

I think the idea of having either equipment or a character stat that can reduce magic's effectiveness on that character makes sense. It's no different than armor reducing melee's effectiveness on the character.

One idea might be to have this as stats on armor. Like caster armor could have inherintly higher levels of magic resistance but low levels of melee resistance and then heavy armor would be the other extreme. So in addition to the "Protection Factor" and 3 "Max vs." stats, armor could have a "Magic Resistance" and a similar "Max vs." stat for different types of magic.

Of course, this would mean some shifts to armor material stats and/or crafting patterns for armor but in the grand scheme of things, that's not a terriably huge change.

As a side note, another thing I think needs to be considered in PvP is that it means "Player vs. Player" and not necessarily "Player vs. Player Combat". I'd like to see competition with other players for harvesters and crafters too. I was very turned off by the idea of combat with other players, however, the few non-combat competitions (player events) that I've done have been fun. I think some PvP competition based around the harvesting and crafting skills could be pretty fun.

[dc77066]

...
I think some PvP competition based around the harvesting and crafting skills could be pretty fun.

Competition and structure is key here. We have PvP currently but there isn't any reward except for bragging rights: who capped who, who got to the best mats first, and who can craft a 100/100 amp or who can corner the jewelry market. Soon the reward for PvP will be a new shiny outpost. For the most part dapper and mercanaries will be the only requirement for securing an outpost. (Oh!! I want a flag flying over the outpost with the guild symbol on it! That would be cool!)

I agree with Aylwyne that we need more options. We also need more rewards. Lucrative contracts with local vendors:
A) Supply me with X suits of Lor-Tashok Armor a month and I'll set you with with Outpost Y. Securing Outpost Y would boost your locale fame so you get better prices.
B) Supply me with nnn q150 Excellent Beng Amber and I'll slip you the keys to Outpost Z. Securing Outpost Z would boost your bag/mektoub bulk so that you can carry more mats.

PvP rewards don't have to be tied to Outposts... could be fame boosts, dapper rewards, rite access, boss spawns or even amber cubes. Trick is to find balance and interest. Nuking an outpost into submission sounds quick and easy but it shouldn't be the only option. Losing a competition should also have a penalty equal to the reward lost.

-Raku

[micrix]

I think everything is fine as it is. The strong are strong, the weak are weak. Thats it what PvP is about. Be better or die. In the end its like PvE: Be teamed and you have a higher chance to survive.

Watching how the story evolves atm i just think there might be a need for a faction based PvP outside of PR.

If Jena will come but Karavans do not enter PR then this war will be a funny one

As player i just want to have the option to join a faction or not. This shouldnt be fame based, but just a simple decission one can make by a checkmark in his player window.

As soon as there is a "official" war on Atys it should be everywhere. This means, if you choose a faction you are in PvP mode planetwide. If you remove the checkmark you are in PvE mode. As soon as someone in a team has war faction enabled the whole team is in this mode. This could cause lot of havoc, but this is how war is

[iphdrunk]

Why not add an extra stat that reduces the magic damage done. I'm not talking about the resistances, since they reduce the damage a bit but mainly reduces the chance a spell lands or not.

What about the same thing but applied to light armors too? (note: I'm a LA crafter so my opinion is somewhat biased, but the next argument applies). To be honest there is little interest in crafting excellent or supreme light armors other than getting a +2 dodge, since the damage absortion is negligeable (e.g.119 rather than 85). Most of my customers would prefer a choice q250 than a supreme q220 (thus the HP bonus accounting for the damage absortion already). This also gives a reason to grind all parts (crafting supremes without wasting lots of mats) rather than 1 part 240 and the rest 101 and try as many times as needed. Same thing applies to jewels. Give the crafters that slowly raised all branches, keeping them balanced

[basicart]

What about the same thing but applied to light armors too? (note: I'm a LA crafter so my opinion is somewhat biased, but the next argument applies). To be honest there is little interest in crafting excellent or supreme light armors other than getting a +2 dodge, since the damage absortion is negligeable (e.g.119 rather than 85). Most of my customers would prefer a choice q250 than a supreme q220 (thus the HP bonus accounting for the damage absortion already). This also gives a reason to grind all parts (crafting supremes without wasting lots of mats) rather than 1 part 240 and the rest 101 and try as many times as needed. Same thing applies to jewels. Give the crafters that slowly raised all branches, keeping them balanced

Yes i second this *wink" my toon is a 32 chest

[mmatto]

Sounds nice. Maybe four stats, one for each magic type (ele, heal, affs).

As we know, ambers and eyes have already power stats for these magic types and some people have been proposing special (optional?) mats slots for HQ armors for generating special effects.

That could be funny as those supreme ambers/eyes would be much more needed than ever before as they could be added to armors for best magic protection. And jewelry too, but they already contain amber.

Little bit simpler way of doing it would be adding magic resistance stats to current armor mats and then it would be normal optimization problem to get good magic protection. E.g you could get good elemental protection by sacrificing +2 dodge bonus with choice mats.

EDIT: Amber slot idea would make 97/97 amps even more rare and thus reducing general elemental effectiveness. And there would be real competition over best mats as need for supreme ambers would be endless.

[helbreat]

EDIT: Amber slot idea would make 97/97 amps even more rare and thus reducing general elemental effectiveness. And there would be real competition over best mats as need for supreme ambers would be endless.

yup i AGREE 100% to this nerf your hoping for here mikos on 1 condition that they make it so you can never make 100/100 melee weapons too.....

melee weapons can get 99% dmg on choice items we need supreme amps for 97/97we cant make 100/100 weapons for magic and alrdy you want it dropped somemore? =/ keep to balancing not nerfing

[mmatto]

melee weapons can get 99% dmg on choice items we need supreme amps for 97/97we cant make 100/100 weapons for magic and alrdy you want it dropped somemore? =/ keep to balancing not nerfing

Maybe it is just you who can't do this stuff There is really 100/100 amps. 97/97 amps is really 97/97 in almost all areas of magic, not just in selected area.

With 100/100 elemental amp you have full potential of 7 different damage types at your disposal. 100/100 weapon gives you access to only one damage type.

Choice ambers gives nice overall 65/65 amp in most stats and probably a better one with optimal mixture of mats. I would guess that you can get 100% (or 99%) elemental power with certain choice eyes too

[iphdrunk]

Choice ambers gives nice overall 65/65 amp in most stats and probably a better one with optimal mixture of mats. I would guess that you can get 100% (or 99%) elemental power with certain choice eyes too

true, not choice(afaik) but excellent, the well-known muncham eyes allow you to get 100 power, and 70-85s speed if mixed well... 100/100 can be obtained with madakoo eyes (the supreme/boss version of the excellent/named mucham) with some ele speed ambers (eyes are usually aimer towards power and ambers towards speed)