post-patch crafting...

[altomesa]

Well, finally got done with all the Sup Zun hunts and new Rites and went back to what I do and enjoy most, crafting. It is now taking me an average of 32 attempts to get a successful Q250 piece of armor at 5%, this is far worse than pre-patch. Using 11 trees for Heavy and Light armor with only one of them being lvl240+ makes high level armor crafting unviable now. Needless to say, I am feeling quite uninspired, disgusted and much like Nevrax has taken months of work and made them nearly useless. I sincerely hope this if fixed before my patience wears out.

[aylwyne]

Over the past several weeks, my two friends and I have been working on increasing our armor crafting. One of us makes heavy, one medium, one light. We will all harvest for one of us to get one piece up to Q150 crafting and then get extra mats to craft full suits for each of us. During that, all but the one piece are at 5% success rate.

Two of us (myself doing heavy and Soma doing light) went through this before the patch. We had slightly better than 5% success rate on the ones that showed as 5%.

Rakujitsu did his crafting post patch. He ended up with significantly higher than 5% success on the ones that showed 5%.

So when we were looking at this result, we were thinking that the patch improved things quite a bit on failure rates.

I'd say either there's something else at play or it's just bad behavior of the random number generator. That may sound silly but is a very real possibility as pseudo-random number generation algorithms vary a lot in how "random" they really are. The last game I played had a notoriously streaky random number generator.

[keoni]

Well, finally got done with all the Sup Zun hunts and new Rites and went back to what I do and enjoy most, crafting. It is now taking me an average of 32 attempts to get a successful Q250 piece of armor at 5%, this is far worse than pre-patch.

OK, here's my suggestion - keep plugging at it with an open mind. I think they might have done something very funky with random number generator, perhaps as a side effect of implementing that (as far as I can tell, pointless) die rolling feature.

The thing is, after chewing through several hundred mats with poor results, things seem (for me at least) to have veered back to about the expected results, pre-patch. So - whether it be crafting or spell-casting or what have you, perhaps give things awhile to get past these statistical anomalies before getting overconcerned about it.

[predzz]

you're all just imaginating things imho.

altomesa, if you don't grind all the other trees you will naturally have trouble making full sets. that's the only advantage the players that grind every part of armor to 230+ get over the ones that just do 1 and leave the rest at 150-160.

I'm in the same situation, lvl 240 in one tree but max 165 in others. a heavy armor ql 250 with all but 1 part at lvl 150-165, would take me about 5-8 hours of getting mats and crafting, depending largely on luck. It sucks a lot, the only armors i would make are light now. And theres no way i'm gonna grind each tree from 150 to 230+

It's too late to change the system now, but perhaps would have been better to just have heavy-med-light armor not split up in parts, but maybe make it 1 tree for each type (heavy/med/light) and then lower the SP cost of armors. same for jewelry. Atm weapon/amp crafters have a much bigger advantage since they "only" need to lvl 1 tree to supply someone, whereas armor crafters need 5-6 (or even 16 for all armors) after lvl 100. (but then i guess armor crafters aren't that much obliged to go searching for excellent or supreme mats-- looks and boost are really the most important factors on armors, not specific stats).

Lastly, when it comes to quests, it's insane how much they expect us to be able to craft. Some lvl 160+ armor crafting missions (at least before patch, havent checked yet) Require us to be able to make a med, light, and heavy armor part HIGH QL, or 2 of the 3. In other words, we need to get 16 trees up to lvl 150, in order to complete some missions. Whereas for people to do lvl 160+ hunting (killing-looting) missions can use any lvl in the melee or magic trees from 2H Axe to def afliction to hand-to-hand to healing to complete the mission...

Ah well, why am I bothering, these things will never change

EDIT: suggestion: have crafting missions like this:
Make me some high ql 180 armors which in total needed at least 100 materials to make.

Then you could make for example 3 high ql heavy vests (120 mats) or 10 high ql light boots (100 mats) or (2 hql light vest + 2 hl heavy sleeves + 2 hql medium gloves (100 mats)).

[scarazi]

Atm weapon/amp crafters have a much bigger advantage since they "only" need to lvl 1 tree to supply someone, whereas armor crafters need 5-6

i really do not understand your way of thinking on this one, we`ve talked (and argued) before on this on more than one occasion. if everyone was always usung the same type of weapon eg axe to lvl with then yes only one tree is required, but different people use different weapons. 2 handed melee, 1 handed melee, close combat, and ranged weapons which equates to around the same amount of lvls as a armourer. just like armour lvls, a weaponsmith must have lvl 150 in each tree for high quality designs. yes a single person can only use one weapon at a single time, but a weaponsmith cannot tell a meleeist which weapon to use. atm, 1 have 3 weapon craft high lvl skills, and 2 more over lvl 160 (which i`m raising atm ( and need to be raised) ). dont complain as you stated in your post that you only have one at lvl 240+ and still make high level light armour.

[mmatto]

LOL. Heavy armor crafter must grind all 6 branches to be able to supply ANY customer at all. Weapon crafter can grind one tree and can supply customers using that weapon. There are specialiced crafters for each weapon type, there is no need for one crafter to specialize in all weapons.

If we compare armor crafter specializing in all armors and weapon crafter specializing in all weapons, then it is about same. Both are nutcases.

[aylwyne]

I think you're kinda missing the point predzz. No one is saying a branch that you haven't leveled up should be easy. What they're saying is that if it says 5%, your success rate should really be 5% (one out of 20) and not 3% or something.

Those few percent can make a huge difference in productivity as that shift can mean the difference of 1 out of 20 and 1 out of 33.

Based on my limited amount of post-patch crafting data, I saw quite a bit better than 5% success. Others have seen quite a bit worse. I'm thinking it's just flakiness in the random number generation. If you look at all crafting server-wide, it may work out to the correct success rates but for any individual crafting session it can seem skewed.

[vutescu]

It is now taking me an average of 32 attempts to get a successful Q250 piece of armor at 5%, this is far worse than pre-patch. Using 11 trees for Heavy and Light armor with only one of them being lvl240+ makes high level armor crafting unviable now. Needless to say, I am feeling quite uninspired, disgusted and much like Nevrax has taken months of work and made them nearly useless.

5% means 5 successes and 95 failures. Not 1 sucess and 20 failures.

If they made the system right, I'm darn happy. I would be even more happy if the success would drop coresponding the level difference, to 1% or 0.05%. In this way the powerleveling in crafting would end, and if someone wants to be an armorer should level all the branches. Not leveling with heavy vest to 240 then using q250 stanza to boost the rest.

[aylwyne]

5% means 5 successes and 95 failures. Not 1 sucess and 20 failures.

1 out of 20 and 5 out of 100 are both 5%.

[iphdrunk]

What I still don't know is the relationship between the 95%, and the number of 'craft failures' (no mats used, focus wasted, time lost and increased loss of mobility in the wrist)and 'degrades items' (item obtained of lower quality). As far as I know, your 5% determines the success of a perfect item, right? and then? is it something like:

- throw a dice 0..100
- if dice > 95 then
perfect item q= target q
- else
throw a second dice to see if either failure or degrade?
how is the degraded quality computed? is it bounded? e.g. I've never seen a q10 or q5 overcrafting to q200+...

still a lot of questions