Nevrax: To be clear about the people that seem not to like the game.

[vinnyq]

*small voice*

Sometime it doesn't mean you're stupid or have no intelligence if you don't want to put effort into learning a game mechanic, and just want to fire it up and have fun.

The best kind of interface for applications and games are those that have ease of use and pretty powerful/optimize by default, but also customizable and editable for advance users.

The skill stanza are not optimize by default as in, they always use range/time/sap credits when purchased, and as we all know, you won't get far with that AT ALL. And evry time you buy a new skill you have to edit the old skill to use the highest brick.

It's easy to just have an option to always use the highest brick, and a way to say "balance hp/sap" usage, etc.

I understood Marct's intention as in, keep the game as is, which we all love, but polish up the interface (which I think the devs are working on) and improving the tutorial and bring in a more of a "hook" for new comers that will wow and dazzle them, before introducing them to the deeper aspect of the game.

I whole heartedly agree with him.

[larwood]

heh the noobies today dont know how lucky they are to even have working starter missions none of them worked when i played on noob island for the first time players couldnt sell items on npc's too so there wasnt the ammount of available weapons and such there is now you had to pester a crafter and possibly travel to places youve never been b4

ya... and you had to walkto all the towns, up-hill both ways cause there weren't teleports, with no shoes, and it was always winter with Kipestas buzzing around, even in newb island. Oh yea, and the picks had only 10 hp on them...

*sounds like my dad. hehe

[borg9]

*small voice*

awww

Sometime it doesn't mean you're stupid or have no intelligence if you don't want to put effort into learning a game mechanic, and just want to fire it up and have fun.

Agreed

The best kind of interface for applications and games are those that have ease of use and pretty powerful/optimize by default, but also customizable and editable for advance users.

You can play this game without ever editing a skill

The skill stanza are not optimize by default as in, they always use range/time/sap credits when purchased, and as we all know, you won't get far with that AT ALL. And evry time you buy a new skill you have to edit the old skill to use the highest brick.

It's easy to just have an option to always use the highest brick, and a way to say "balance hp/sap" usage, etc.

The reason they come like this is you don't have the HP/Sap credits at the time the 'first' become available, if you have leveled a different tree and gained these credits, hopefully you have also aquired the editing skills.
Highest brick is not always the best brick

Which is better:
High time credit, to be healer friendly
High HP, to be 'novice healer' friendly (HP heal only)
Balance HP, SAP, range and time credit to be solo friendly
Two stazia one HP one Sap which you can alternate between
... etc

There is no 'best' set up there are some great generic ones but no perfect ones.

I understood Marct's intention as in, keep the game as is, which we all love, but polish up the interface (which I think the devs are working on) and improving the tutorial and bring in a more of a "hook" for new comers that will wow and dazzle them, before introducing them to the deeper aspect of the game.

I whole heartedly agree with him.

I heard a long time ago that it was planned that we could create our own custom interfaces, but I think some little problems 'In House' ment that all the lovely features that will move the game from Great to Awsome have been delayed a little.

btw - if you want to know the one thing that hooked me the very first time I played (over a year ago now) was ....... the water effects!

The hook is different for everyone...

[vutescu]

Check your Nietzche quote

Hehe, yer, I am sure I am Neun.

I think ur the 14-th person whos telling me that i've spelled the name wrong. I know. I like it spelled wrong for God's sake.

[calel]

Hey, never said anything about being stupid or not being intelligent.

The point is: if you' d have the 'optimize' button on each and every skill; why would you even bother having the stanza system? It can only get worse if i try to use another brick instead; so to the best effect we should all run around with our 'optimised default' skills and after a month or two, maybe less, the stanza system would actually be pretty obsolete because everyone starts using pre-defined maxed out skills. Sorry, but I don' t see how this is going to be better.

As for the current default skills: you CAN get far, but slower. So why not trying to edit it then? I know I never bothered to edit skills before lvl 20, it was all to complicated for me. But i noticed how it took me longer to progress in the long-run; so I started fiddling with the bricks. After I adjusted some simple spells I noticed a huge difference in progress.

The stanza system is here to help you tailor your spells and skills to your own needs; it is what makes the gameplay of SoR unique for me; and it is a curve of neverending experimenting. If you take that away, you might as well go play a whole different game with predefined skills.

Just my two cents.

[vinnyq]

The reason they come like this is you don't have the HP/Sap credits at the time the 'first' become available, if you have leveled a different tree and gained these credits, hopefully you have also aquired the editing skills.
Highest brick is not always the best brick
...
There is no 'best' set up there are some great generic ones but no perfect ones.

Ok, I concede on this point. There's just no way for you to optimize a skill on default, their current way is fine. But all I know is, it was a long time before I even know about the editable stanza or bother with it. I see I can right-click and select edit, but I just avoided in initially figuring it's complicated. But now, I can't live without it. All it needs is better tutorial and help text, maybe have an NPC character talk you through it.

I heard a long time ago that it was planned that we could create our own custom interfaces, but I think some little problems 'In House' ment that all the lovely features that will move the game from Great to Awsome have been delayed a little.

btw - if you want to know the one thing that hooked me the very first time I played (over a year ago now) was ....... the water effects!

The hook is different for everyone...

True, but there's a hook that is more universal than water effect

This is what any good games, books, stories, movies, plays, television program, etc, do. They'll first hook you by shock values and/or an intrigue, a mystery, or a tad of foreshadowing.

This is what can be done for SoR.

Feed them a bit of the lores by having an intro movie. This is very effective to introduce new players to the world of Atys (which is awesome!). Heck, they could just play one of their trailors ahhahahaha.

Give you a long term objective right off the bat, or multiple long term objectives for that matter, that are "main story" mission. You don't have to follow or try to achieve it, but you can if you want to (ala Elder Scrolls series).

Please understand that this is what I am saying the devs can do to make SoR more appealing to new comers, not that they have to do this or they'll die a horrible death.

edit to add: and all Marct is saying is, if Nevrax wants to make SoR more accessible to a broader audiences, that's some of the things they should look at. It wasn't a criticism or complaint.

[marct]

WOW(as in amazement), If you read ALL of my posts they are about making things better. If you think I want to change the game you are sadly wrong. If you look around and read and understand Noin, you will find him participating in the community, loving the interface, helping others, planning events, and HATING taking the 3+ hours for the 200th time to explain how to edit a [email=#@!?$]#@!?$[/email] spell.

Not to mention needing to instruct every new person about a team window, etc. I DO NOT want a WoW clone, I do not want a dumbed down game. What I do want is for a casual player who does have an imagination and only 4-8 hours a week to play to be able to enjoy my game with me. If they did not get caught up in being overwelmed they may have fun participating with you instead.

If you think you unsderstood the game in the first week you can go save the world, The best players that have 10+ hours a day to play for the past year are still learning stuff. I am very open to your positive constructive input, but saying I am wrong, and this would not be helpful is not that. If you just want the people around you that enjoy figuring out the game to the Nth degree, good luck. You will have a very very limited community for the rest of your life. If some of my ideas suck, I can take that but provide some real stuff not jsut bashing my stuff for trying to give a different viewpoint. There is a lot of ground before we become a "WoW" clone. If you think some of those things do not help, I would say you are wrong.


P.S. Someone mentioned being able to create a config for the screen as an option that had been discussed in the past, I think this would be incredible. The ability to create a control "skin" now that is a MOD that would be sweet.

Noin.
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If you want to flame me for this, please send a PM as I would love for this to be a positive constructive thread. And there is no reason for everyone to hear your hatred of me.

[vutescu]

*Lookin in backpack for the flamer*
errr.... I'll just use the PM instead (PM in my language stands for SMG )

[larwood]

Ok... I think Noin is right... it is cofnusing at first with starters. But as neun said, those people that dont know how to change stanzas, dont have the credits to have very efficient spells/actions.

So Noin, I disagree with your suggestion, and I think this would be better. You are not wrong, just a different idea.

So rather than make it done for you, how about some kind of explanation with the NPC's that help you along in the begining. That tells you what an action stanza is, and how to change it... to get the most out of your spells.

I think its proper that you dont start with the best and most efficient. If it did, it would take away from some of the fun of learning. Like how we start with refugee armor... we upgrade as we go.

You do have a point that its annoying for experienced player to be telling people how to do what over and over... so if the begining info/tutorials were a bit broader and explained things like this, and the team window etc.. it would solve both points of view right?

[vinnyq]

Yep, but dont' forget about the intro movie, Thom