PvP, the devil: or (to P or not to P?)

[zhidao]

Well xenofur, I explained it quite often that beeing treated as a traitor after anouncing to participated in PvP and knock down whoever the traitor considers to be suiteable to be knocked down is a RP based reaction. It was quite a pleasure to see that many Homins on our Server participated and share that kind of thinking and act accordingly. I indeed just spoke out what needs to come after an announcing of that kind.
I remember that grimjin or vinnyq mentioned such a reaction somewhere else as beeing a suiteable and a correct reaction from the non PvPler against those who just do bad PvP or better known as PK or any other kind of limitation which may be not bearable by the majority of Hominkind. Only difference, we lived it while here they just speak about because on Aristotle may not be a reason to react in that manner.

By the way, vinnyq as I said people here and on Leanon have quite similar opinions. At least it seems so. We have those who overpraise PvP into the sky with equal arguments you do here, we have those who hate PvP and consider it as evil with similar reasons as you here and also those who just want to see a sense in PvP and do accept it only under these cercumstances. That`s way I said our discussion here appears quite similar to ours. Perhaps here I find a lack on unsuiteable or misworded posts
which courses only increase in heat of argumentation but that`s all.

[quasar11]

I've tried more than once to steer this conversation from PVP vs no PVP to consentual vs Non-consentual PVP. It's obvious PVP can't be avoided in some form almost every game has it. But there can be only one reason to advocate non-consentual and thats because you plan to do something to other people they won't like. I could care less how much PVP goes on. I don't begrudge you what I consider a waste of the developer time. Why, it's simple you pay for this game just like I do. You're entitled to a game you enjoy just as much as I am.
But, when your "fun" infringed on mine then I have an issue. If all you want is the joy of stalking another mind then why can't you be happy hunting someone with a like mind that wants to. Why, must you insist on preying on those who don't want to be bothered.

If those who advocate PVP would simply be willing to concede on this one point you'd get no more argument from me and most of the rest of the community. This could be settled and we could all look forward to enjoying the game as we each want to play it. IF you can't agree to this I have to ask why. Why do I have to be included against my will for you to have fun?

[vinnyq]

fyi: I am against non-consensual pvp (well non-consensual anything actually )

But here's a test:

- Do you considered it concentual PvP if a few areas in the game (not all area, just a few) are marked PvP, and that if you entered these area, you will receive warnings, and then be attackable?

- Do you considered it concentual PvP if buy owning an Outpost, you're also accepting the fact that you will have to fight for the Outpost if it is threaten by other players?

[quasar11]

1. No, because high lvl diggers are forced to go there in other to get certain mats. Were those mats available somewhere else perhaps at a slower drop rate that would constitute a choice. As it is they are only available in PVP zones so no it's not consentual.

2. Certainly not, I joined this game to "save the world from the Kitin menace" I don't see how fighting my fellow Homin accomplishes this. I'm I willing to fight to maintain an Outpost? Heck yeah! Any time day or night if that's whatever it takes. But, my fight is with the kitins they are what I came here to fight. If some guild wants to challenge i'm game for that too. But, it should be my choice. That's the definition of consentual.

[vinnyq]

1. No, because high lvl diggers are forced to go there in other to get certain mats. Were those mats available somewhere else perhaps at a slower drop rate that would constitute a choice. As it is they are only available in PVP zones so no it's not consentual.

There are other PR that are non-pvp. E.G. the Abyss, Sunken City, etc. You only like the PvP PR I think, because it is easier to find mats and safer.

2. Certainly not, I joined this game to "save the world from the Kitin menace" I don't see how fighting my fellow Homin accomplishes this. I'm I willing to fight to maintain an Outpost? Heck yeah! Any time day or night if that's whatever it takes. But, my fight is with the kitins they are what I came here to fight. If some guild wants to challenge i'm game for that too. But, it should be my choice. That's the definition of consentual.

Ah, but here's the thing. You don't have to actually *own* an Outpost. It isn't part of "Kitin Invasion", at least for now.

If it isn't obvious, my answer to the 2 questions I posted is that, Yes, those form of PvP are concentual.

[quasar11]

then obviously we disagree at least on point 2 at the least...

[zhidao]

Ah thats interesting. Finally, somehow who explains my thoughts as I would do myself, thanks quasar11.

I of course agree point 1 is non-concentual.

Point two can be both indeed. You will need to differ there vinnyq.

Non-Concentual if anyone just capture my owned OP just for a nice feature the capturing guild won`t do without (the material way of thinking) or capture just for the challenge of PvP itself. That will lead to the explained on side fun other side frustration.

It will be concentual indeed if there is a greater meaning behind capturing. This can be for example that the peace between Karavan and Kami nations start to waggle and the nations compete for the lands of Atys to gain more power. (The story at least keep this possibility open I think).
That fyros won`t attack an op run by guilds loyal to Zorai or Fyros is out of question logically (at least not without an imensive loss of fame with both fractions as thats betrayal). As for guilds loyal to Tryker or Matis I suppose those are not soo loyal to each other coming from past conflict between both. They may choose to attack all nations. Neutral guilds not loyal to any nation needs to be considered as enemies as soon as they capture an op in the lands or are get in the nations way in the roots.

I think of mission based capture the outposts (that also can mean attack an player leaded op of course sometime when missions of different nations cross each other) which now or than will lead to PvP as after all outposts beeing captured and missions lead you to the lands of an other nation you will faith the competition of a good PvP. One advantage of this is, that guilds will need to work for the right to get a mission to capture on of the most interesting outposts in q250er zones and especially prime roots. Gain a special kind of reputation as no nation will grand such an important mission to a new untested guild.
In this mission based way all outposts will get into view not only those few interesting ones.
That will be a good reason to encounter into PvP even for those who dislike this kind of fight itself and both sides will have fun.

This would be the most meaningful way indeed, and would offer fun and work for all of us for quite a period of time. The R2 will do the rest to keep us busy. And the best all players will have fun and not only one fraction.
I hope and suppose that David have a dream equal to that second point. And if not, well why should David alone have the capability to dream useful dreams, we all dream with him as we stay at his side, Here ón Atys. Don`t forget, only our imagination limits the reachable.

[filtern]

I have been wondering.. Whats the difference between Duel and PvP Challenge IG?

[vinnyq]

Ok, this has probably been said umpth thousands time already, but you guys need to convince me again why entering the Nexus and Umbra PR is not concentual PvP, where you know it is a PvP area and you are warned when you entered the area that you can be attacked.

Quas, wut you gotta to say to the fact that only Umbra PR is PvP, while you still have the Abyss, Wasteland, and Underspring as non-pvp area where you can get sup mats?

[grimjim]

Ok, this has probably been said umpth thousands time already, but you guys need to convince me again why entering the Nexus and Umbra PR is not concentual PvP, where you know it is a PvP area and you are warned when you entered the area that you can be attacked.

Quas, wut you gotta to say to the fact that only Umbra PR is PvP, while you still have the Abyss, Wasteland, and Underspring as non-pvp area where you can get sup mats?

For the same reason me walking back from the pub once it closes isn't consent to being mugged

Yeah, someone can attack me at any moment, no, I don't want them to.