Just some quick thoughts on E3

[raynes]

You seem to want to shoot down even the glimmer of an idea that doesn't center around combat. It's hard to believe this is the same Raynes that cried out for "explore content" for 2 years in EnB. I guess you've been converted over to the idea that everything has to center on combat and any suggestion otherwise, is a bad idea.

Yes, at first outposts will be only combat. But that's not to say that other ideas are invalid and won't be considered or implemented in the future.

However, if we never bring up these other ideas, they almost certainly will have no chance of making it into the game.

I beleive if you think back no matter what I suggested for exploration content it always made sense. If there was an advantage to a combat activity then I would suggest a way to make explorers valuable in that activity. I would of never suggested that an explorer be given special protection against combat. If I said an explorer went into a hostile area, I would suggest they have to hire warriors to protect them. Think of the big suggestion I made for the main exploration content. Did I say that when explorers went into an uncharted sector they should be safe from all mobs? Of course not. I said they would have take a warrior to watch their back as they did their job.

The ideas you are suggesting don't try to work with the systems that are in place, they try to change them and give exceptions to them. That is not only wrong but creates unfair an advantage by giving non-combat types a special status. So how do you deal with non-combat types without changing in game systems or creating special rules?

1) Let them hire NPC guards
2) Let them form alliances with other types of guilds
3) Use the Kami and Karavan aspect to come up with something that will fit. For example if a guild has a high Karavan faction, they can craft to provide the Karavan goods. In exchange the Karavan will setup a forcefield or a perimiter around your camp. If they are Kami based the Kami can provide a magical barrier so long as you spend a certain percentage of online time fighting goo.
4) Introduce a way for guilds to train ragus and gingos as guard dogs in exchange for harvested Kitin meat.
5) Let players befriend exsisting tribes so they are happy to protect them. So if you build an outpost near the Shadow Runners and provide services for them, when you are attacked they send troops to help you.

I know many people think I want to force the non-combat types into picking up weapons and fighting, but that is anything but the truth. No one should be forced to fight if they don't want to. That doesn't mean that combat shouldn't effect them. What it means is there needs to be ways for them to deal with attacks without actually picking up a sword.

[aylwyne]

The ideas you are suggesting don't try to work with the systems that are in place, they try to change them and give exceptions to them. That is not only wrong but creates unfair an advantage by giving non-combat types a special status. So how do you deal with non-combat types without changing in game systems or creating special rules?

But that's exactly what they're doing for fighters. They are going to completely change the game mechanics when they add outposts and that change will significantly favor fighters.

Why is it impractical that there's also changes added that equally favor harvesters or crafters?

You say that it would be unfair if someone can't take over an outpost with their fighters. I believe that it's unfair that players that have invested an equal amount in the game, just in crafting and harvesting, get left out.

Having combat outposts (the strongholds, border posts, etc.) that are taken by force and give great combat bonuses (a special spell, cool fight action, etc.) makes complete sense and gives the fighters something to work to obtain.

At the same time, having a crafting outpost that is taken by being better at crafting (kind of like outdoing your competition in a capitalist market) that gives some cool new crafting pattern also makes sense and gives the crafters something to work for.

[raynes]

But that's exactly what they're doing for fighters. They are going to completely change the game mechanics when they add outposts and that change will significantly favor fighters.

Why is it impractical that there's also changes added that equally favor harvesters or crafters?

You say that it would be unfair if someone can't take over an outpost with their fighters. I believe that it's unfair that players that have invested an equal amount in the game, just in crafting and harvesting, get left out.

Having combat outposts (the strongholds, border posts, etc.) that are taken by force and give great combat bonuses (a special spell, cool fight action, etc.) makes complete sense and gives the fighters something to work to obtain.

At the same time, having a crafting outpost that is taken by being better at crafting (kind of like outdoing your competition in a capitalist market) that gives some cool new crafting pattern also makes sense and gives the crafters something to work for.

The mechanics aren't going to change so they give the advantage to fighters. In fact it's quite the opposite. Lets say my guild is made up of nothing but players who have a high combat skill level. Your guild is made up of a combination of crafters and harvesters. We both have 10 members. Due to the fact you have the ability to sell your goods and mats at a much higher rate and for more daper than I can sell quartered parts money is much easier for you to obtain. Because of this you can easily support 50 guards without feeling any financial stress.

My guild on the other hand has to spend much more time killing things to get the money together for 25 guards. You have a huge advantage there.

Outpost are not going to be able to be held onto by the attributes of the players that hold them. It's all about how many troops you buy, what types, and how you use them.

[danadita]

What the outposts sound like to me is something like strategy games and the winners are those with the most dapper to throw around.

Somebody once talked me into playing Starcraft with them. I had this nice little town going with knowledge centers, manufacturing plants - the whole bit. The other player came in with 4 airships and nuked it to the ground. I hate strategy games.

[forever]

Do crafters get to craft the armor and weapons the NPC guards use?
Did I read this some place or is it just in my little head?
If you could craft good armor and weapons for the NPC guards, whould this not help?

[raynes]

What the outposts sound like to me is something like strategy games and the winners are those with the most dapper to throw around.

Somebody once talked me into playing Starcraft with them. I had this nice little town going with knowledge centers, manufacturing plants - the whole bit. The other player came in with 4 airships and nuked it to the ground. I hate strategy games.

That's not exactly true. It's not only how much money you have to spend, but how you spend it, and how you use the npcs you do buy.

And as far as I know you can't craft armor for the npcs.

[grandma]

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of alternate means of taking an outpost...
We are not a warring guild, however if someone calls on the thunder, we'll be there full force :0)

But I think there could be an alternate way to take an outpost rather than just bashing the enemy's heads in constantly.

I don't really see our guild in particular having a problem holding an outpost...but what about smaller guilds or guilds that are mainly focused on harvesting or crafting. I agree you have to be able to defend against attacks, but I think there should be another way to take an outpost rather than attacking.

Do these smaller guilds need to call on their allies just to be able to take an outpost? Now the "allies" get greedy and want the outpost since they did all the fighting and what can the small guild gonna do about it...?

[micrix]

Raynes, you mentioned hiring NPC many times. Do you have any information if everybody can hire ? I mean, if you have no outpost, can you hire to attack an outpost ?

Is it possible to command them or do they just attack everone on the area of an outpost ?

Many outposts will need a walk from a gate or a teleporter. How do the NPCs react on attacking kitin and animals while maching to an outpost ?

What happenes when two armys meet somewhere while marching somewhere ?

What level will NPC mercenaries have ? Or ist this just another question about dappers ? Like blue one is cheap red one is expensive and pink ones are unpayable ?

I am really curiuos what will happen in future. I think going to war will be as expensive as defending an outpost. An aggressor might overextend himself while attacking an outpost, which can lead to an couterattack and the loss of his own outpost.

Harvesters and crafters will form grand alliances. Since they do not attack often, they will have awful amounts of dappers to raise their defence.

[raynes]

Raynes, you mentioned hiring NPC many times. Do you have any information if everybody can hire ? I mean, if you have no outpost, can you hire to attack an outpost ?

Is it possible to command them or do they just attack everone on the area of an outpost ?

Many outposts will need a walk from a gate or a teleporter. How do the NPCs react on attacking kitin and animals while maching to an outpost ?

What happenes when two armys meet somewhere while marching somewhere ?

What level will NPC mercenaries have ? Or ist this just another question about dappers ? Like blue one is cheap red one is expensive and pink ones are unpayable ?

I am really curiuos what will happen in future. I think going to war will be as expensive as defending an outpost. An aggressor might overextend himself while attacking an outpost, which can lead to an couterattack and the loss of his own outpost.

Harvesters and crafters will form grand alliances. Since they do not attack often, they will have awful amounts of dappers to raise their defence.

That a good question about hiring NPC's to attack an outpost. I'm not really sure. My suggestion is to post a question in the question thread concerning buying NPC's in relation to the attacking side of outposts.

From what I saw there are different types of NPC's you can buy. Warriors, Casters, Several types of guards, and so on. I would imagine the level of the guard would be based on the level of the outpost. Of course that does raise the question of a level 150 player attacking a level 50 outpost. Sounds like another good question to ask.

I'm also not sure what is involved in the time it takes NPCs to travel. I was told there is time involved and from the demo they did come running from the distance.


Update: I just posted a bunch of questions in the question thread concerning the gray areas that have come up.

[grimjim]

"This to me is a horrible idea. Really think about what you are saying. One guild steps up and declares war on another guild, they then sit down and have a knit-a-thon to see who can sew the fastest? That pretty much takes any realisim this game has and makes it laughable."

Funny, but not what I read.

More like...

Oupost Officer: The Emperor has decreed that the Dusty Dune Workshop licence shall be given to the guild who can prove their efficiency. You have five hours to return with 50 Rilonus boots, sleeves, vests and gloves. If you succeed you shall be granted the outpost licence.

Guild: Rightho...

Evil Guild: Bwahahaha, fools... we can easily outcraft them, why our guildhall already contains 50 suits of Rilonus armour.. or, we could wait for them to get the licence and then slaughter them, taking it by force.

The second option would be good if it had an impact on fame.