Random pk in the roots by Savior, feel free to return the favour.

[akicks]

No i want to wait till you are digging to kill you so u can see how annoying it is. Since you seem to think it is acceptable to kill someone in focus gear and armed with a pick. Maybe if you experience first hand you will change your tune.

And that goes for anyone who thinks it's cool to kill harvesters.. don't give me that pvp crap.. their is simply no honour in it.

There may not be honer in it, But if you are in a pvp area don't expect honer. Expect people come and kill you. (Not saying that I will, Just pointing out that people will).

When you enter a pvp area you are given a warning that "Hey, guess what, anyone can kill you now, no matter what you're doing". It may well be honerable to not kill harvesters. BUT it is apart of the game. A part that you are warned about.

To sum it up:

If you decide that you want to go into a pvp area and harvest AND if someone decides to kill you, deal with it.

edit: corrected spelling

[bf649ztp]

You have to hand it to Savior, he has started the most argumented thread in the history of Ryzom. But enough People. Start a new thread if you have any more beef with something to do with Ryzom, but surely everything has been repeated at least twice in this subject.

[mrozzy]

You have to hand it to Savior, he has started the most argumented thread in the history of Ryzom. But enough People. Start a new thread if you have any more beef with something to do with Ryzom, but surely everything has been repeated at least twice in this subject.

But, but, ... I started the topic!

[quasar11]

Frankly, I hope this discussion has just begun. Because there has been no concensus reached. Even in war there are rules of conduct. Killing of unarmed civilians has never been condoned and those caught doing so are constantly prosecuted. Ask the Serbians and Rwandans.

A PVP zone is no different than a war zone! The same rules apply. The Red Cross and refugees regularly enter them knowing full well they are war zones. Do they expect to be killed no... why because they aren't participating in the conflict. A harvester in a PVP zone is no different. They are not there to participate in your conflict. Nexrax didn't create pvp zones for you to have target practice on harvesters. They gave you a place to fight and wage war with those who so choose.

If you can't see the difference then I feel sorry for you and this game. I said it before and i'll say it again "those who dislike pvp...won't join in... they'll leave! Then you gankers will be the only ones left when they pull the plug on the servers.

You want PVP fine do it all day! Heck i'll even join in a bit from time to time.
But make no mistake about it PVP and ganking are two different things. I for one want to know exactly where this server stands on the issue.

[magick1]

No i want to wait till you are digging to kill you so u can see how annoying it is. Since you seem to think it is acceptable to kill someone in focus gear and armed with a pick. Maybe if you experience first hand you will change your tune.

And that goes for anyone who thinks it's cool to kill harvesters.. don't give me that pvp crap.. their is simply no honour in it.

I wish you would read what I actually wrote. Let me repeat the important part in bold:

I am against killing players, harvesters included.

Futhermore I don't ingage in PvP at all, for me it is a necessary evil. It is there for those who like to do that, fair enough, there should be room for everybody (within reason of course).

And to stress this is not something I am pulling out of thin air, take a look here.
Granted it is for MUDs and similar games, but it is how I play in MMOs too.

One last thing, are you aware that the actions you proclaim to do, are similar to what the original poster complained about?
You know the part about "Savior ran up to me, out of the blue and killed me. I didn't even see him, he didn't give any warning at all." ?
Essentially you have publicly announced that you will kill me for reasons that I am innocent off, and that you think you are "right" to do so.
Basically you say, killing a harvester is bad but I will kill you anyway. Talk about "The pot calling the kettle black".

If you still want to kill me go ahead, at least I have tried to reason with you.

[hunter17]

Frankly, I hope this discussion has just begun. Because there has been no concensus reached. Even in war there are rules of conduct. Killing of unarmed civilians has never been condoned and those caught doing so are constantly prosecuted. Ask the Serbians and Rwandans.

A PVP zone is no different than a war zone! The same rules apply. The Red Cross and refugees regularly enter them knowing full well they are war zones. Do they expect to be killed no... why because they aren't participating in the conflict. A harvester in a PVP zone is no different. They are not there to participate in your conflict. Nexrax didn't create pvp zones for you to have target practice on harvesters. They gave you a place to fight and wage war with those who so choose.

If you can't see the difference then I feel sorry for you and this game. I said it before and i'll say it again "those who dislike pvp...won't join in... they'll leave! Then you gankers will be the only ones left when they pull the plug on the servers.

You want PVP fine do it all day! Heck i'll even join in a bit from time to time.
But make no mistake about it PVP and ganking are two different things. I for one want to know exactly where this server stands on the issue.

There is no war going on right now, and for general information, Savior and Flora are both Fyros, i'm almost positive, i've talked with Savior many times and he is not that hardcore RP'er, so he is definitely up for war, as for rules of engagement, there are non in PvP, it's purposely a "lawless" place for people to fulfill malice and kill harvesters if they want to, and once again, PvP is there in PR where sup mats for a reason, it didnt happen by chance.

Bad part of Normal Land (Desert, Lake... etc) is that supreme mats arent harvested, except for forest i've heard, and that they must be obtained from bosses, which disallows you to get the good stats on harvested mats (not many unfortunately)
PR enables you to get the Sup mats, not only that it lets you use for ALL racial plans, the downpart, PvP and a bit harder monsters near them, Disapproving PvP in PR ruins the foraging's bad parts, and all of a sudden, turns PR into the "Uber" Class.

[liam29]

I wish you would read what I actually wrote. Let me repeat the important part in bold:

I am against killing players, harvesters included.

Futhermore I don't ingage in PvP at all, for me it is a necessary evil. It is there for those who like to do that, fair enough, there should be room for everybody (within reason of course).

And to stress this is not something I am pulling out of thin air, take a look here.
Granted it is for MUDs and similar games, but it is how I play in MMOs too.

One last thing, are you aware that the actions you proclaim to do, are similar to what the original poster complained about?
You know the part about "Savior ran up to me, out of the blue and killed me. I didn't even see him, he didn't give any warning at all." ?
Essentially you have publicly announced that you will kill me for reasons that I am innocent off, and that you think you are "right" to do so.
Basically you say, killing a harvester is bad but I will kill you anyway. Talk about "The pot calling the kettle black".

If you still want to kill me go ahead, at least I have tried to reason with you.

Your head is going to look real nice at the end of my pike.

[hunter17]

Lol why would you kill him (or try )? he's trying to make a point on forum
Maybe i'll hang up your body with a bullet to the head :O

[sasaj]

Frankly, I hope this discussion has just begun. Because there has been no concensus reached. Even in war there are rules of conduct. Killing of unarmed civilians has never been condoned and those caught doing so are constantly prosecuted. Ask the Serbians and Rwandans.

A PVP zone is no different than a war zone! The same rules apply. The Red Cross and refugees regularly enter them knowing full well they are war zones. Do they expect to be killed no... why because they aren't participating in the conflict. A harvester in a PVP zone is no different. They are not there to participate in your conflict. Nexrax didn't create pvp zones for you to have target practice on harvesters. They gave you a place to fight and wage war with those who so choose.

If you can't see the difference then I feel sorry for you and this game. I said it before and i'll say it again "those who dislike pvp...won't join in... they'll leave! Then you gankers will be the only ones left when they pull the plug on the servers.

You want PVP fine do it all day! Heck i'll even join in a bit from time to time.
But make no mistake about it PVP and ganking are two different things. I for one want to know exactly where this server stands on the issue.

The best post in this thread.
When you leave portal/teleport you get standard 30 secs message thet you are in Guild vs Guild zone where guilds can settle (or try to) their problems. It's not made to be place for random killing without reason. Few months before merge i saw post from cerest on NA forums with text "What do you expect from us to do about killing harvesters in PvP zone?" (or simular). It's clear that PvP zones are not made well, but i guess they need something working before outpost are ready.
What we really need is some kind of "war declaration" between guilds (this may come with outposts). That will make sure that only members of guilds in war can hunt eachother in GvG zone, the rest of us need to be safe there (from other players).
I never had any problems in PR and hope i never will.

[caitiff]

First, I have not read this whole thread as I do not have the time

Even in war there are rules of conduct.

This is 'true.' I think courtesies of conduct may fit better. The truth is, when push comes to shove, these are not followed really. And no, not much can be done but retaliation in the same manner or one greater.

Killing of unarmed civilians has never been condoned and those caught doing so are constantly prosecuted.

This is very true. But lets analyze the true function of a digger first. A digger digs mats so that a crafter (may be the same person) can craft. These crafted items are then handed off to those in the guild. What do these people use these items for? To kill the enemy. Now, as I recall we do attack the factories that supply the enemy. How are the diggers any different then the factories? You see, the diggers dig strictly so items of war can be made. They are not digging to make underwear, couches, lamps, toothpicks, but items of destruction (or defense from destruction).

Now, if you want to take down an entire building quickest, what area will you hit first? Top or bottom? The bottom because with out the bottom there is no top. Without the top there is still the bottom. Which is more effective? In our situation the crafters are the bottom and the warriors are the top. The top is strongest ONLY if it has the bottom.

To me, I see NOTHING wrong with attacking a person in roots digging. Why? Because players CAN punish the people back themself. If you honestly do not want diggers killed, start forming pacts with each other. In this pact state that you/your guild will NOT attack diggers. Not only will you not attack diggers, but you will help protect them. If one is killed in roots all you simply have to do is message others in the pact and get a fleet to whipe this person out. Take action.

This is all I will say.