Gamemaster?!?

[ilthor]

I ran a consistent Vampire storyline for 10 years, an SLA Industries campaign for over 5 years and that's just two examples.

I've played the same MERP/ROLEMASTER campaign for some 8 years now...

Oh and jyudas, you can talk about game longevity and tough progression laddrers now

[mmatto]

As someone else noted, I can't understand all this talk about abusing cliffing. OK, it is unfair to mobs and riskfree for elementalist. XP is no better than hunting mobs normal way with a healer. Cliffing gives no loot and is extremely boring.

On the other hand, many seem to approve out of team healing or even out of team nuking to help team to get xp faster. I consider out of team tactics far more serious exploit than cliffing.

Why do I think so? This is eploitation of weakness in algorithm that calculates gained xp. You can power lvl selected characters far more faster than they would using normal tactics. It is also quite much risk free if helpers are higher lvl. It also makes much easier to complete ele/melee lvls near 250, I presume, as you don't have to share diminishing xp with a healer.

[sasaj]

On the other hand, many seem to approve out of team healing or even out of team nuking to help team to get xp faster. I consider out of team tactics far more serious exploit than cliffing.

Why do I think so? This is eploitation of weakness in algorithm that calculates gained xp. You can power lvl selected characters far more faster than they would using normal tactics. It is also quite much risk free if helpers are higher lvl. It also makes much easier to complete ele/melee lvls near 250, I presume, as you don't have to share diminishing xp with a healer.

Like someone said on this forum (aajolea i think) at level 149 you get 1033 XP (or 1066?) for Great Jug (lvl255) in a team of two. Solo is 2k i think. I'll rather step out of team and heal mage/melee last 10 levels in next few days then heal in a team for at least a week (there is other stuff to do). Don't forget that number of those high level hunting spots is limited. This is choice of healer to step out and help friend (and yourself). Still we can both die and get DP. In "cliffing" scenario only mobs die.

[grimjim]

I've played the same MERP/ROLEMASTER campaign for some 8 years now...

Oh and jyudas, you can talk about game longevity and tough progression laddrers now

I _started on_ MERP/Rolemaster.
Its amazing I stuck with the hobby

[ilthor]

Its amazing I stuck with the hobby

LOL... i know if you start right away on rolemaster rules it can be quite (hmmm) ?hectic? , but if you start on MERP then evolve to Rolemaster its very nice and easy. We did that and was preety simple (xcept for the martial arts which still puzzle me lol). Atm, we just kinda stick to it cause we're familiar with system and don't feel like a new set of rules all over again. BUT, MERP/Rolemaster compared to D&D and AD&D (3d edition rules) is like comparing a Jaguar to a Mini or Renault 4L...

On the MMO vs RPG comparison, let me just tell you that for example if i killed ONE boss on my campaign like people pack them and bbq them here i'd have Sauron itself at my door lol (one of my chars died of assasination at the hands of paid murderer squad because of an adventure that went on like 2 years before that char died...). Also, if i shud ever try to "farm" a spot, after the second kill there would be all of the previously deceased mobs/npcs family, friends, brokers etc near me in no time. SOOOOOOO, people pls stop comparing MMO's to RPG's... the only thing alike is lvls, mobs, skills, etc > gameplay couldnt be more diferent.

As a further note, i'd like to add that good behaviour ingame (abyding by the rules mostly...) is essential to game balance, as its already enough that people have diferent ingame time.

P.S. - justice in rules is always triky, so i know there must be some flexibility in a MMO (where hundred of people who never met each pull for their side...), but if you loose the rules, well might just as well make us all top lvl and equip us with patch 6634 weaps...

[amitst]

hopelessly, hopelessly, flawed

you should not penalize players for the mechanics of the game

GMs do target people forever once they see reports of weird doings

[magick1]

you should not penalize players for the mechanics of the game

Indeed, why they only do it when players break the EULA, CoC and/or the rules.

[glipe]

If you play any game (and I mean, any game. Chess, ludo, Vampire:TM, football) there are rules. Some rules are enforced by the system (in chess you have a set number of different pieces, in football you have two teams and a pitch, etc). Some rules are enforced by officials and official rules (you cannot handle the ball during play unless you are a goalkeeper, a chess piece has a certain set of possible moves). If someone does something that is against the rules, they should be penalised. If someone does something deliberately against the rules and I see them...

1) I will inform the necessary authorities and
2) I do not want to play the game with that person.

If you saw two people playing chess and one player moved a piece in a manner that the piece cannot legally be moved, while his opponent wasn't looking, shouldn't you inform him? If you know that Nevrax have stated that a certain method of gaining XP/items/fame is an exploit and should not be used, yet you still do it, you are breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if that is not your opinion, it's the rules! You wanna do it, go make your own game rather than messing up ours.

Ps. Respect is due, Jyudas, on many points. I'm an old school roleplayer with many years experience. I agree that monsters should not be the only path to experience, but at least most systems have implemented diminishing returns in this respect. And I have agreed with just about every post you have written on this topic. Good show.

[evilek]

The game started in September, after some time someone begin to cliffing there... then all others follow him and now Flaming forest is a noob-area cuz u can see lvl100 mages cliffing there.
As I said the game started in September, i'm not sure if the Shalah was in under the canyon since Sept, but surely they was there in December (and in fact, in December some lvl230 ele appeared...) the Devs and the Gms have received 1000+ tickets about this... and the Shalah are still there.
I started as melee, in December was lvl160 something melee and about 22 in offensive affliction... when i saw ppl with 250 title menaced me to kill me in pr (and someone did that) I started to cliffing too...
As the devs and the gms know this "problem" you all know it as well too...
it's an your choice: remain melee and got killed by an ele or go ele you too...

btw 4 me this game is without cheat, cuz the characters are saved on the official server and u can't hack them, u can gain xp, skills and all the rest ONLY playin on the official server... so the word "cheat" sounds stupid (alot...).
u have a world to explore, u have to find best strategies to hunt too.

someone talked about roleplaying and bla bla bla...

soldiers in real life excercise themselves to shoot with rifle on non-live target in a dedicated building... they can increase their skills but surely they can't die cuz the targets can't fight back them.

huntin shalah in ff canyon is the same.

if the devs think different they had to leave them long time ago, or at least put under the canyon mobs that can fight back the attack (like the ranged guards bosses 4 example).
i'm still seeing the shalah in ff canyon but after 2 tickets the devs fast slowed the respawn rate of the great jugs in highgrove... something is wrong here? uh?!

let use cliffing (really boring...) who want, if ppl have fun in this way let them free to do that... noone player-side can determine what is right or what is wrong, only the devs can... and the shalah are still there...

hope to see you all soon ingame with the new american brothers.

an hugs with knives in the hands, your beloved XipeTotecPrime

[glipe]

btw 4 me this game is without cheat, cuz the characters are saved on the official server and u can't hack them, u can gain xp, skills and all the rest ONLY playin on the official server... so the word "cheat" sounds stupid (alot...).
u have a world to explore, u have to find best strategies to hunt too.

someone talked about roleplaying and bla bla bla...

soldiers in real life excercise themselves to shoot with rifle on non-live target in a dedicated building... they can increase their skills but surely they can't die cuz the targets can't fight back them.

huntin shalah in ff canyon is the same.

............[clipped text from here - sanz].............

let use cliffing (really boring...) who want, if ppl have fun in this way let them free to do that... noone player-side can determine what is right or what is wrong, only the devs can... and the shalah are still there...

I think I must have explained things poorly. The devs have stated what is right and what is wrong; the rules in the Codes of Conduct. These are not the game mechanics, which is what goes where and how stuff acts. It's the rules for how you must behave in game. In the same way that using expletives or racist comments is against the rules, or using a bot, camping, griefing....just read them! Going against these rules is "cheating". Use another word if you think it's a stupid one. Come up with your own vocabulary. The meaning is still the same; going against the rules is wrong.

Comparing hunting Shalahs to a firing range is actually a very good example. You can't get hurt. I agree entirely. You are entirely correct. That is why it is against the rules. The rules that the devs laid down. The rules that you agree to every time you log in.

No, I don't think we should let people use "cliffing" if they want to. It's against the rules. I mentioned them above. No-one "player-side" decided on them. The devs did. If you believe that they are the only people who can decide what is right and wrong then listen to them! The Shalah are still there, they've said that hunting them using "cliffing" is against the rules. Players should stop doing it, or be punished if they do.

Please excuse the abrupt nature of this post. I haven't got my Ryzom fix tonight and I'm not coping well with going cold turkey.