To all the naysayers, as well as fans of this genre, PLEASE READ THIS POST! Thanks!

[vinnyq]

Last one out please hit the lights.

Will do!

And I'll leave the light on in case you need to find your way back.

[zumwalt]

As always.. someone has to try to point out something about Americans in someone elses post:

i fully agree, most americans DON'T use their imagination and nor can they use it

Sad but untrue to a major extent.

This game has potential, I'll give it that or I would have left long long ago.

The first 30 minutes of his typing was spent telling us about his history, his ambitions, his career, and his new company, all sales pitches in my eyes.

Ego is larger than mine, and I have a big ego.

I had pong, Odisyee, atari then got some stuff i could program on as in i had a trs-80, vis-20, c-64, c128, moved on to amiga 500, a radio shack 80286 with an upgraded whopping 40 meg hard drive with the extended memory to give me 1 meg of ram, on down the line.

As to stating that this is all American's fault for not being imaginative by the other poster, or whatever, is pointless.

This is all just opinions as to how each person see's the game, has nothing to do with race / religion / sex / culture / or anything else, its all personal oppinion of the game.

Were all sick of not seeing what is on the BOX that is in print when you buy the game, you see advertisements of what is in the game, that is not in there, thats the gripes everyone has, and is always overlooked.

Bugs asside, the game is just missing core elements that are advertised on the box.

I go buy a game on a shelf from Electronics Boutique, any game, and I see on the back what the game has IN IT, and I EXPECT to put the game into whatever console machine I own or computer that needs to run it, turn it on, install it or whatever, and be able to play it as stated on the box, at a minimum, everything else is candy.

All else asside, everything new is up to them to put into the game or not, I don't care, I just want what I initially paid for to make me happy.

[bobturke]

Good post Gadreel. I agree pretty much with all that you said.

A bit of polish such as being able to sit on chairs and /emotes for normal, non-comical behaviour (/hugs /frown etc) would go a fair way to promoting roleplay on a small scale.

Just about every time there is a lull in a hunt it starts with a comment about with what someone is wearing. "Wow! I love that armour you got X" Then a few others start on and before you know it you have 3-6 people roleplaying. Talking about their favorite supplier. What sort of gear they want to get in the future. Etc. But there is more to roleplaying than just chatting. In my experience and IMHO it is restrained by the emotes. They aren't that intuitive. I personally write short list of the more useful ones for this reason, but is sux when you have to 'plan' roleplaying.

I know this is *the* fix needed for roleplaying in this game but it would be a start for encouraging it.

Anyway as i said at the top good post Gadreel.

[lyrah68]

I know of several games that encourage and enjoy a loyal...albeit SMALL player base, most of these lost players to better graphics though. The Realm is a TWO D RGP, with less than 3k total subscribers, can't call them Massively ANYTHING. The game is limited, but those graphical limitations tended to bring the SERIOUS role player *looks at Raynes* out in their players.

I have to admit that the mindless average player of the AVERAGE MMORPG, which this community just is NOT, is perfectly HAPPY with the Everquest style hack, slash, nuke and Heal variety of games. This player base is also not old enough to drink, vote or in some cases even DRIVE (I realize that some adults DO play EQ...I was one of them, but the maturity level there vs. here...none of us would debate that one.)

BUT, as more people gain more free time, adults as old as 90 play these games, admittedly the over 65 set is limited in number...but ONE DAY! The corporate guys need to remember what I have already figured out...Baby Boomers are retiring, and they are NOT our parents grand parents. The BB demographic does NOT behave like any other group, and their numbers are HUGE.

I have found that the Baby boomer crowd is more into the Mature type of game, and they have a bit more patience in actually reading through the mission notes.

I think if it was rewarded enough, that more people would actually bother to read them. In fact, one of the reasons I don't DO missions is that they are more poorly written than EVERQUEST'S quests were. Most Ryzom missions have ABSOLUTELY no purpose to them.

That was another think my hubby and I discussed. We agreed that quests should either enrich the storyline IN game...or just not be programmed in at ALL.

My hubby and I, and all of his role playing only dragon only guild can NOT be the only people on EARTH that would eat up a rich interactive online game!

I think about Role Play like I did acting (I was in drama club in high school, UGH what WAS I thinking. But then I did have PINK hair and a rat tail ), I need a MOTIVATION for my character to do anything, or else the game is NOT role play.

Ok, WHY do I hate Karavan? IN GAME PLEASE, not some STUPID lore entry on some out of the way part of a web site...Devs...if the player will NOT read the NPC chat...you actually think that that SAME player has even SEEN your site??!! PULEEZE!

If there was something the Karavan was found to have done, something horrid, like the Holecaust, if we found the ruins of a Tryker village and LOTS of Tryker sized bones, and Karavan foot steps in fosils or something. Or found
an ancient recording device, like a crystal data storage device with an enteral power source (don't scoff, I have heard some egg heads discussing that we are about ten years from that technology being advanced enough that SOME corporations and governments could acctually afford it, and it uses the Magnetic fields of the earth as part of the power supply).

Some player trips across this device and sees the images of a Tryker village SLAUGHTERED by Karavaners, reasons unknown. It would only take one or two crushed childrens skulls to confirm that image as REAL and not a fantasy.
Welp folks...THAT would be motivation enough for me to HATE...LOATHE the Karavan.

On the other hand, I don't believe that the Kami are 100% right either. So a Karavaner could find evidence of Kamis retaliating against those that they thought were harming Atys. But bear in mind, even Vegans kill to eat, so what YOU see as not harmful, others might swoon at.

Honestly I feel if I had half a reason to I MIGHT lean towards Kami faction, but what motivation, what reward, what storyline IS there to support that decission? As the game is RIGHT NOW...I do not see any reason to throw myself behind either team....YET.

And back to the perfect game...if you make it...they WILL play it. I have myself, my hubby, my 12 yo daughter and my hubby's ALL dragon guild ALL role players. Just give us a reason to leave another game and join yours.

[lyrah68]

In order of preferrence, my list of priorities in a game are:
NO LAG, at least none that affects game play

SHORT load times, I would tollerate a VISABLE zoned world, if load times were in the seconds, not long enough to go get a drink, make a sandwhich and change the washer to the dryer.

Rich storyline and motivation to want to complete quests

a character development system that is MUCH more than hack and slash or as another put it very aptly...Rinse repeat& grind.

Something interesting to do from Character creation until DOOMSDAY (AKA the foreseeable future), make me not only want to PLAY your game, but make me want to KEEP playing it and tell my friends, neighbors, family members and that stranger at the electronics store looking at your game box.

A rich character customization at creation, RICH very diverse "costume" possiblities to help me "flesh out" my characters personality (Any actor can tell you 20 minutes in the make up and costume department and they find their jobs MUCH easier, same thing here). And ways to change my characters looks as he or she grows, and his/her personality changes.

Piercings that would show (nose, multiple ears, beauty mark, and on). The ability to CHOOSE if you want to keep scars after death or not, some tribes see scars as badges of courage. In fact, on the lines of Piercing, some intentionally and artfully scar themselves. (Not MY bag, but some people enjoy it...It takes all types).

The ability to play with players of ALL nationalities. I enjoy meeting and playing with Brits, Aussies, Dutch, German ALL races, colors and creeds of people. I find that it adds a spice to the game, and helps me see things from another point of view.

A more flat advancement curve instead of the exponentially harder to level system that MOST of us are used to. Where the XP to level number is figured by multiplying your level by some number, and that number goes UP with each level.

Some flexiblity in class selection, if not the OPEN skills system of Ryzom. Or at least not FORCING players into a group role that feels confining or choking.

A magic system that is logical and as diverse as the REAL forms of Magick that exist OR have in history existed. There is everything from the Fluffy bunny sweetness and light healers, the Dark and dangerous folks that play with the dead, ghosts ghouls and demons, high magi that mess with controling others and gaining power, those that use mind games to control people (enchanters and illusionists), shamen, driuds, herbal healers, astrologers and on and on. In other words, I wouldn't DREAM of only having two spells that I ever used in real life, why should I play a game that limits me to two spells that work well and four others that aren't worth looting or training for? And PLEASE for the love of PETE...don't forget the invisablity, porting spells (port self AND port group...I can't BELIEVE I just asked to end up port mule again )

Make mellee combat something more than *equip weapon* *aim at mob* *hit auto attack* *go get soda* *come back and loot body* *repeat ad nauseum* Give us the ability to do attacks that animate that are more than *swish* *swish*. How about Martial arts that are as diverse as Jeet Kun Do?? Or a bow and arrow that are worth using, or a gun that isn't INSTANT death, but is worth using as well?

A chat system that is intuitive and the player (myself) has as MUCH control as possible. See Horizons for the chat system I am discussing.

UI that I can change the color of, the size of. An action bar that can be either horizontal or vertical, large or small, that allows for visually challenged (IE HUGE icons and gems, and LARGE font chat features). In other words as MUCH customization of interface as is possible in current coding abilities.

I know other players like the exclusiveness and Eliteness of an "end game" and I think that there should be an option OF, but not a limitation TO a more difficult higher end game.

Risk versus reward...If it takes a group of 50 to kill, it should drop enough cash and loot to split between ALL of those 50...fairly and evenly, and a raid system should be available so that ALL that helped kill it, buff or heal those that did or nuked the mob should get a reasonable distribution of the xp, not just the group that got either the LAST hit or the majority of damage. This rewards guilds and alliances to raid and hunt together.

PLEASE, if you have dropped loot, don't make most of it pure CRAP. And don't make one or two items that take 250 to get, and it only drops once in 500 kills, and the mob only spawns ONCE a WEEK. Rare loot has ruined MORE guilds than I can remember.

PLEASE make the crafting system workable and crafted gear worth the effort. I like Horizons and Ryzoms system of harvesting and crafting. Horizons was a BIT tough on the sheer AMOUNT of mats you had to use to make stuff, and the amount of grinding you had to do to level, but they also allowed for deconstruction and reuse of materials. I think somewhere between Ryzom and Horizons would be PERFECT.

As much as I hate the stale versions of elves, humans, dwarves etc...I have to admit I do miss them. And I know of several Horizons dragons that won't leave until they find a game with a dragon race that is playable, even though they are BORED in Horizons.

A group of devs that LOVES the game and it shows. The value of this is higher than can be stated. And YES the player sees it. Also a dev team that is WELL experienced in coding with the game engine you are planning on using, or at least has ten to 15 years in the gaming industry. (THIS was Horizons BIGGEST short fall, a dev team that did NOT know how to locate and remove even the SMALLEST bug, nor did they realize that the way they sent data and the sheer AMMOUNT of that data was the biggest cause of lag. I did a log parse and I was getting battle info from other players halfway across the zone I was in...WHY?!).

Please if you have the dream to make the game for Role Players...Find the funding, make sure it is two to ten TIMES what you think you MIGHT need...worst case senario...But then DO IT. I would GLADLY beta test it!

[dan420]

i fully agree, most americans DON'T use their imagination and nor can they use it

What I find amusing is how so many non-americans know so much about america and what goes on here (the majority of which have never even visited). These kinds of statements are simply an example of narrow-minded ignorance...for example, your conclusions seem to be based on a "Walmart comercial"...talk about lack of imagination!! How brain-dead do you have to be to base the disposition of an entire country on a retail store advertisment..rofl.
You also make references to "kids" in the game...another display of uninformed lack of thought as the majority of players I have spoken with (9 out of 10) are adults. Turn off D+D and educate yourself. Most of the complaints are in the nature of shortcomings for which solutions have ben promised for months as has been previously stated.

[dakhound]

What I find amusing is how so many non-americans know so much about america and what goes on here (the majority of which have never even visited). These kinds of statements are simply an example of narrow-minded ignorance...for example, your conclusions seem to be based on a "Walmart comercial"...talk about lack of imagination!! How brain-dead do you have to be to base the disposition of an entire country on a retail store advertisment..rofl.
You also make references to "kids" in the game...another display of uninformed lack of thought as the majority of players I have spoken with (9 out of 10) are adults. Turn off D+D and educate yourself. Most of the complaints are in the nature of shortcomings for which solutions have ben promised for months as has been previously stated.

you are correct in saying stereotyping americans as having a lack of imagination is wrong, I for one have exstensivly travelled though america (and wished I didnt) and know many americans who's imagination and intellegence far exceeded my own. I have however noticed that even with optimistic posts from people on your side certain people shoot them down and moan about the same stuff over and over again.

the dumbing down of imagination is happening everywhere not just america and it is because all the imagination kids need these days is given to them on a television.

btw. never seen a walmart commercial and I dont think any commercial could sum up the diversity of the american people though I dont wanna get into how people stereotype americans over here as its probably more off target than how the world stereotypes the "british" (cant remember when I last called myself british)

[raynes]

I have however noticed that even with optimistic posts from people on your side certain people shoot them down and moan about the same stuff over and over again.

Maybe if they would get off their butts and fix that same stuff that has been broken (or missing) since launch we wouldn't moan about it anymore. And before you say "you would just find something else to moan about", that's hardly true. As Zumwalt said in another post all we want is what was on the box (and in the manual). The box we purchased mid September 2004. Until we get what we paid for (that's right we paid for the software) we have every right to complain as much as we want.

Think of it this way. You go to the store and buy a brand new version of Windows. You install it and all that appears is a command prompt. You call Microsoft and they explain to you that the graphical interface is still under development and they will ship it to you when it's ready. Are you going to tell me that you wouldn't complain?


And just so we are clear, I just pulled this off of amazon.com today (I added the numbers):

1# Explore the world of Atys - uncovering the past while learning about the mysterious Prime Roots
2# New Modular Action System -- from a set of pre-defined Actions, you can customize your own spells, attack patterns and crafting skills
3# The RAID engine lets dozens of creatures launch offensives at the same time, challenging your players in epic battles
4# Band together with other players as a guild, then take on missions to earn outposts and your own land
5# Battle native tribes, the invading Kitin or the contamination of the Goo - your choices will decide the fate of entire regions

Of the 5 things that are advertised only #2 and 3 have been fully implemented in the game.

1) There is no way to uncover the past or learn about the Prime Roots in game.
4) There are no missions for guilds nor are their outposts in the game.
5) You can not fight the goo.

[uncus]

Make mellee combat something more than *equip weapon* *aim at mob* *hit auto attack* *go get soda* *come back and loot body* *repeat ad nauseum* Give us the ability to do attacks that animate that are more than *swish* *swish*. How about Martial arts that are as diverse as Jeet Kun Do?? Or a bow and arrow that are worth using, or a gun that isn't INSTANT death, but is worth using as well?

Good Post Lyrah...I remember pre-patch 1 when melee combat was like that...when bleed and other long-term skills had an effect. Now it's just max increase damage and watch to see if I nedd to use self-heal. Combat got too fast...probably because someone complained that it was too slow 'cause they could gain 3 levels an hour.

[zukor]

Maybe if they would get off their butts and fix that same stuff that has been broken (or missing) since launch we wouldn't moan about it anymore. And before you say "you would just find something else to moan about", that's hardly true. As Zumwalt said in another post all we want is what was on the box (and in the manual). The box we purchased mid September 2004. Until we get what we paid for (that's right we paid for the software) we have every right to complain as much as we want.

Think of it this way. You go to the store and buy a brand new version of Windows. You install it and all that appears is a command prompt. You call Microsoft and they explain to you that the graphical interface is still under development and they will ship it to you when it's ready. Are you going to tell me that you wouldn't complain?


And just so we are clear, I just pulled this off of amazon.com today (I added the numbers):

1# Explore the world of Atys - uncovering the past while learning about the mysterious Prime Roots
2# New Modular Action System -- from a set of pre-defined Actions, you can customize your own spells, attack patterns and crafting skills
3# The RAID engine lets dozens of creatures launch offensives at the same time, challenging your players in epic battles
4# Band together with other players as a guild, then take on missions to earn outposts and your own land
5# Battle native tribes, the invading Kitin or the contamination of the Goo - your choices will decide the fate of entire regions

Of the 5 things that are advertised only #2 and 3 have been fully implemented in the game.

1) There is no way to uncover the past or learn about the Prime Roots in game.
4) There are no missions for guilds nor are their outposts in the game.
5) You can not fight the goo.

Good post, raynes. I would add to your comment on #5. I don't care all that much about the Goo. The more important omission is the "your choices" part. Right now the things you do, and the choices you make, don't affect the fate of anything except your toon.

Doctor Z.