ranged needs to be fixed.

[vguerin]

The problem is universal... I will give you that much... I see it used by ranged folks more than others is why I mentioned it. You didn't say anything about running and shooting though, does that mean you think it should work that way ? Is that a nerf to you ?

[tetra]

The problem is universal... I will give you that much... I see it used by ranged folks more than others is why I mentioned it. You didn't say anything about running and shooting though, does that mean you think it should work that way ? Is that a nerf to you ?

Ranged uses more hp/stamina than magic does because of the need for a high accuracy and max +hitrate (if it's not max then it basically doesn't work at all). After you consider the HP/Stam use you can then stack on the fact that it's the only combat skill where every shot eats some consumable components (ammo). So I'm all for removing the ability to run while shooting, as soon as ranged does more damage per second than magic and it's high enough to justify the added mat cost.

Of course I'm sure we can both agree that turning ranged combat into the equivalent of an ubernuker isn't exactly good for the game, and that your suggestion about nerfing ranged's ability to run while attacking was just random stupidity that you hoped would make a point but didn't think about before you actually hit that submit reply button.

[tetra]

I'm kicking this back up to the top of the forum due to Nevrax's continued silence and apparent lack of interest in addressing any of the problems with ranged, or even admitting that they exist. I have to wonder why nevrax is so terrified of the skill that they haven't touched it in any positive way since beta and are afraid to even talk about it.

[xenofur]

there is a very slight possibility that when he mentioned the warriors will get a review he was also talking of the range fighters, after all the originate in the same root
if not...

[tetra]

there is a very slight possibility that when he mentioned the warriors will get a review he was also talking of the range fighters, after all the originate in the same root
if not...

I think even you know that such a possibility is really stretching things. Aside from sprouting from the same tree, there is nothing in common between ranged and melee... well... unless you want to count almost all of the melee only skills being in the ranged tree... oh and of course the only ranged only skills being bricks that were removed during beta when they sped melee up due to the +hitrate bricks being too expensive, forgot to do the same with ranged, ignored posts on the FBT forums saying they forgot, and brought the very same bricks back claiming that it was the first round of fixes.... except... whoops.. there is no second round, just a thoughtless virtually code free "stfu we aren't going to even look at the skill, and are certainly not going to listen to the threads in german and english ATS forums saying this 'fix' is harmful to the skill" style brick thrown at those who said the skill was broken...

I have a hard time believing that the problems with ranged are the result of anything except a misguided untested belief that the skill is uber, or fear of a "scifi" label being put on the game. It's pathethetic, and there is absolutely no excuse for some 6+ months into the game that the entire skill is worse than it was in beta. They might as well go full circle back to beta and replace the insultingly pathetic sixteen shots with the old 15-30+km range on ranged weapons, at least then ranged fighters will be able to annoy things with impunity while they tickle them to death... wouldn't want nevrax to have to waste time looking at the skill or coding anything for it.

[magick1]

Bit off topic here, I do believe Nevrax is marketing it as a sci-fi game. So it looks more like it being a fantasy game without ranged...

To me 1H ranged appears right, that is a short range. 2H ranged on the other hand is waaay to short, the whole point in a longer barrel is higher accuracy and range (AFAIK).

I will admit that I use ranged mostly to get extra SP, but I would like to see it being more useful than it is.

[tetra]

Bit off topic here, I do believe Nevrax is marketing it as a sci-fi game. So it looks more like it being a fantasy game without ranged...

I tried looking for the exact wording, but it seems ebgames.com doesn't stock ryzom anymore. It was science fiction fantasy, or something along those lines, if I remember correctly. That's all well and good that they want to call it something like that, but AO calls itself science fiction fantasy as well. Sure there are some fantasy elements to it, but the game is essentially science fiction to the core. Marketers can call a game anything they want, it doesn't suddenly make it true. Ryzom is a fantasy game, and a few karavan standing in town by a space ship isn't suddenly going to change that... making ranged weapons viable and useful, will adjust that slightly though.

To me 1H ranged appears right, that is a short range. 2H ranged on the other hand is waaay to short, the whole point in a longer barrel is higher accuracy and range (AFAIK).

1 handed ranged is even more worthless than 2 handed... it does less damage per shot and shoots faster... yay! Of course with the way the +hitrate bricks work, everyone shoots at pretty close to the same speed with a good gun. Of course with the way the +hitrate bricks work, it doesn't matter what speed your gun is, you will still need to use pretty close to max +hitrate and there will never be a "ok I'm set for speed with this one" level brick that would eventually grow into a negligable cost as you level. Of course +hitrate works exactly like it did in beta... when it was too expensive and removed when melee base speed was sped up... when nevrax ignored posts saying "uhh... you forgot to fix ranged".

Of course nobody at Nevrax seems to care.

[hunter17]

range should become more of a penalty incuring class, i noticed only about 2 while fighting, and 1 occurs in melee - make the enemy lose stamina, or make him dodge less- maybe if we could put bleed, slow, and ignore armor on the corresponding ammo, it would be pretty useful,
we also need some credit stanzas, i dont see why attack after feint and attack after critical dont work for range, they seem suitable and they would reduce stamina cost greatly

[lazarus]

I've been looking at ranged quite a bit myself lately, after completing the Tryker ranged rite, and although I'm not that high a level in it yet, I'd like to make a few observations based on my own experiences...

I don't believe ranged is broken as such. The elements that are in place actually work, in so far as you can make a gun, make some ammo and go out and shoot stuff. I think the real issue is the lack of appropriate stanzas etc to 'flesh out' the skill. At present the only stanzas that are available are accurate attack and hit rate. It also seems that the different ammo types don't have the same effect as the comparable melee weapons, ie pierce slash etc don't seem to make any difference.

One thing I do believe needs a serious look at is how a new player would be able to progress using ranged. I have level 101 melee, so I was able to use accurate attack 6 and a high hit rate with a level 90 gun and ammo straight away, and the higher level gun and ammo has made a big difference, in that I can stand toe to toe with a Scowling Gingo for example for 3k xp at level 30 ranged, which a 'true' level 30 character would never be able to do, and I am also able to supply myself with ammo etc very easily with level 156 forest forage and level 86 Prime Roots forage, which again a new player wouldn't be able to do.

At present, ranged is really only a viable option for 'established' characters. In order for ranged to be a viable skill for starting players, I strongly believe there needs to be a rethink on available stanzas and the ability to use special stanzas like attack after dodge, crit, feint etc to reduce stamina cost.

I truly hope ranged becomes a 'proper' fight skill, as it is a huge amount of fun even as it is now, and with just a little work and imagination could become a real unique selling point in this game.

[jgi47ak]

I'm lev 55 2-hand range fight and 65 2-hand melee. I use rifles, auto launchers, and launchers with medium armor. I think the main thing that needs to be fixed is people's perception of ranged fight. The gun determines range and hit rate and ammo determines damage. It seems kind of odd at first that a rifle of sap load does just as much damage as a rifle of damage but it makes sense. How can a gun increase the damage of the ammo anyway? Well you could strengthen the barrel to allow a more powerful explosive propellent to be used but the thicker stronger barrel would be harder to cool, slowing down the fire rate and then... well you end up with an auto launcher that does more damage than a rifle don't you? If there were more stanzas for range fight aside from accurate attack and increase hit rate, I wouldn't use them. There's no way I could afford to make my range fighting actions cost more anyway as it is I can't use heavy armor because of the action penalty.

I do more damage than a lev 55 mage at a faster rate (and my shots stick a lot more often than elemental spells as well) unless I run out of my choice 99% damage ammo. I guess it is hard for new characters to start off doing range fight but I think that's mainly because they don't know where to find good damage ammo mats. I didn't start doing range fight until I was lev 40 range weapon craft. I made myself a sap load launcher and 99% choice damage ammo with mats I harvested near Yrkanis and Avalae. Just like a low lev melee fighter who somehow gets his hands on a good damage weapon, I leveled up fast. There was one time where I shot 3 rounds from my launcher and killed 4 gingos for a grand total of 12000XP.

Range fight works great for me.

Ivarion
Gladius Jenae(hopefully)