What importance do have missions ?

[micrix]

1. TY for the much detailed description. i will give missions a try

2. Its always hard to get a skill degraded due to balancing
This happens in all skill-based games. I remember too many D2 players whining about there degraded sourceress or barbar. Even the warrior of WoW was degraded after Indalamar@nurfed solo homerun in US-beta

This is whats life about: Make the best out of what you get !

[dakhound]

This is reminding me of the D2 patch where the Whirlwind Barberian was adjusted.
(little bit of background: BigfighterDooD, longrange poleaxe, spin him around really fast, let him to max damage on every hit through a group of mobs. After sometimes, the most powerfull players looked like ballerina's in Heavy armor with wings. It was tuned done to do a more reasonable amount of damage vs. time. Upset some people a bit

This is one of the first games where I play for fun, not for lvl's. If it gets harder for whatever reason, so be it, it will add to the fun or will use other skills.

Grtz

The whole spell set was nerfed beyond use (or so some peoples opinion goes) I still think there is a place for them although minor tweaks could be made.

at the risk of repeating the DEF MAGIC thread

e.g Sleep knocking mobs out when sneaking, and when they wake up they are not aggro'd to you (what other use can it have ATM stun does the same job but you can hit the mob without waking it up)

slow attack rate actually slowing the attack rate would be nice

madness working to any extent would also be nice (I've yet to see it work even after extensive testing on low lvl mobs)

the only one's that dont need upping a little are stun and fear as they work fine (as far as I can see anyway)

[borg9]

This is reminding me of the D2 patch where the Whirlwind Barberian was adjusted.
(little bit of background: BigfighterDooD, longrange poleaxe, spin him around really fast, let him to max damage on every hit through a group of mobs. After sometimes, the most powerfull players looked like ballerina's in Heavy armor with wings. It was tuned done to do a more reasonable amount of damage vs. time. Upset some people a bit

This is one of the first games where I play for fun, not for lvl's. If it gets harder for whatever reason, so be it, it will add to the fun or will use other skills.

Grtz

I tend to agree with you here.

I haven't seen many 'nerfs' to anything for a longtime.

Harvest since patch 1++ has never been easier.
Craft went through a period where boosts didn't work correctly, but also a period where crafts never failed (degraded)
Range - I think this is one where if you use it 'correctly' its an awsome skill, if you don't it gives the impression its useless (been buffed twice Hit rate stanza, major reduction in mat requirements with added ammo clip increase)
Fight - I think this is the most effective and balance skill tree.
Magic - as much as people 'used to' say its useless, I have yet too understand the view point form 1-50 its fine even solo, 50-100 best in a team environment, 100-150 magi+heal = power leveling machine, 150+ = dead mob, self heal next mob.

[ozric]

We can now see all the missions that can be done (grey ones). If they are grey you don't meet the task givers requirements. This was a great step forward as it was beleived that the higher level content wasn't there or bugged. We now know we just didn't qualify.

This seems to be the general consensus, but in my experience it isnt correct (unless its "still" bugged).
As an example, at one point (maybe 2 months ago) i was able to do a "gather mats" (black pigment) mission for the Waterbreaker Tribe Welcomer, which i completed. Now, with higher WB fame and higher harvest lvl, it is greyed out for me. There are plenty of harvest missions that are greyed for me also, lots in the lvl 50 area of Fyros. I am lvl 200+ desert forage and have 90 personal Fyros fame. It just doesnt make sense that i dont have the requirements for these missions, when there are very similar missions from the same NPC that arent greyed out.

As for fame in general, again some thing dont make sense at all. Why do the Fyros start at +33 fame with the Kitin Gatherers for example, who are a Karavan aligned tribe, etc etc.

[borg9]

This seems to be the general consensus, but in my experience it isnt correct (unless its "still" bugged).
As an example, at one point (maybe 2 months ago) i was able to do a "gather mats" (black pigment) mission for the Waterbreaker Tribe Welcomer, which i completed. Now, with higher WB fame and higher harvest lvl, it is greyed out for me. There are plenty of harvest missions that are greyed for me also, lots in the lvl 50 area of Fyros. I am lvl 200+ desert forage and have 90 personal Fyros fame. It just doesnt make sense that i dont have the requirements for these missions, when there are very similar missions from the same NPC that arent greyed out.

Take you point on this - Now we are in a position to report this as a bug and get feed-back. (is it possible that this is a 'too easy' mission now, not sure if these even exist)

As for fame in general, again some thing dont make sense at all. Why do the Fyros start at +33 fame with the Kitin Gatherers for example, who are a Karavan aligned tribe, etc etc.

Tribe fame - is a complex beast .... not all Fyros/Zorai are Kami followers and not all Matis/Tryker follow the Karavan. The ToT karavan NPC at the TP is Zorai. The Kuild (Kuilde) are a mutli-race tribe that follow the Karavan. The Beach Combers are a Multi-race tribe that follow the Kami. The people you choice to follow is not based on you birth race, but a choice made by the individual.

The Cockroaches as fair AFAIK hate everyone!

[sprite]

As for fame in general, again some thing dont make sense at all. Why do the Fyros start at +33 fame with the Kitin Gatherers for example, who are a Karavan aligned tribe, etc etc.

Maybe the Kitin Gatherers (who I'm assuming are mainly Fyros here...) feel that all Fyros (ie their kinsmen) are generally nice people, whether they follow the Kami or the Karavan?

[usinuk]

I haven't seen many 'nerfs' to anything for a longtime.

Huh? Neun, while you look through a rose colored perma-subscription glass I can't let this summary for new players go. Let's be a little realistic about things.

Harvest since patch 1++ has never been easier.

Agreed. Too easy, a result of devs panicking and pandering when harvesters were leaving the game in droves after ATS feedback was ignored pre-patch 1. (If you're a new player, look for the 25 page whining thread started by harvesters back in October. Shows how to get things done...whine as loudly as you can and maybe you'll get your tree fixed.) Easy...unless of course you want supreme mats, which have become insanely hard to get unless you PL'd PR or forest harvesting and are now stampeded every server reset.

Craft went through a period where boosts didn't work correctly, but also a period where crafts never failed (degraded)

Boosts working correctly are the single least important issue facing crafting.

We've had:

1. Elimination of crafting as a stand alone profession once missions and pricing screwed up in patch 1. Forced leveling of harvesting to level crafting. No effort made by devs to fix this. No reason to run any crafting missions at all save for rite missions given they don't even cover your mat cost and fame effects are better if you run craft missions for non-overseers. Second most broken profession in game, only made playable at how ridiculously easy it is to get mats harvesting. 5x the time spent harvesting to get 1x crafting level.

2. Bulky interface where you can't even set your own prices, just a broken markup that has been known for 2 months and hasn't been touched

3. Stealth nerfing mat requirements without patch notes, which you took as a feature. Adding mats to high q plans for grinding helped some but the most difficult plans (e.g. jewelry) still require hours upon hours at 2-4 mats a time.

Range - I think this is one where if you use it 'correctly' its an awsome skill, if you don't it gives the impression its useless (been buffed twice Hit rate stanza, major reduction in mat requirements with added ammo clip increase)

Awesome? DPM (damage per minute) has been conclusively shown to be between 1/8 to 1/2 that of other skill trees at 2x-3x the stat costs, not to mention insane mat costs once you hit higher levels. Ammo does not work correctly (piercing does not pierce, slashing/blunt do not affect mobs the same as melee weapons and still cause reduced damage), not to mention ancillary effects like lightness and range not functional. Weight a huge issue...only items in game where bulk gets trumped by weight. Weapons do not work correctly with only features enabled being speed and range, the max range of which is less than magic.

Buffed? Grand total 2 changes to ranged in 6 months, one of which is readding a beta stanza that only affects heavy weapons, not the other 2 skill trees. Other issues have been known, repeatedly discussed and analyzed - and ignored.

Use 'correctly'? Sure, as a skill tree for bored high level melee/magic types. As a standalone primary profession, worthless. Interesting applications by some in groups, but try leveling pistol some time before you tell me that it's working 'correctly'.

Fight - I think this is the most effective and balance skill tree.

2H pike is effective and balanced up until 150ish. Other trees have significant problems (second dagger being broken, DPM vs reduced damage from shield not working well for 1H, blunt/slash special effects not working well if at all for 2H, worthless area stanzas). All that needs to be said about fight being 'balanced' is that we don't have any lvl 250 fighters that I know of yet, versus how many avatars of destruction...

Magic - as much as people 'used to' say its useless, I have yet too understand the view point form 1-50 its fine even solo, 50-100 best in a team environment, 100-150 magi+heal = power leveling machine, 150+ = dead mob, self heal next mob.

Ahh, yes. Magic. The other skill that got a couple boosts post-patch 1, and subsequently we numerous level 250 players in it.

Elemental is unbalanced comparatively in terms of DPM when you can solo even level high level mobs with a few shots. Unsurprisingly people have taken advantage of leveling the easiest tree in the game.

Heal got a HUGE boost (which people forget about) in patch 1. Was balanced prior to that, but this was the one tree that was tweaked for the massively increased patch 1 mob damage where every other skill tree was untouched. Result was unbalancing a whole lot of other things with the bandaid being heal skills increased. Other result: a number of celestial guardians.

Afflictions? The way magic used to be (except for that stupid blind exploit), which is why people used to complain about magic being 'useless'. But now restricted to solely even-level mobs, which makes it very difficult to level. And a nice but not necessary skill to have given the boosts to heal and elemental. Impossible to level outside of a friendly and tolerant group as an afflicter isn't 'needed' the way a nuker or healer is.

This is whats life about: Make the best out of what you get !

My advice for new players? Do what you want. Try running a few missions. But if you want the path of least resistance and easiest leveling, play a elemental/healing mage and laugh at everyone else with balance issues and broken skills, and then come back to the other trees when you're bored.

Those of us who have spent a whole lot of time on other things than nuke/heal mages, of course, may not have as much fun. This is why we are still rather concerned about game direction, since the effort and hours we spend to level the way we want to doesn't quite seem balanced.

[borg9]

1. yep, removal of money generation mission was not a nerf on a skill. it was a don't bother with these change (not for the good). As a crafter I make enough money selling direct to the NPC to completely bypass the need for missions. Shop mats prices are silly and when the player base realises that marking there mats up to 12k each is shoot themselves in the foot, maybe I can spend less time grinding harvest.
NPC mats, never liked the idea personally that I could level a skill standing in front of the raw mat merchant. I only every buy these when I need to reduce the amount of money I have.

Jewelery grinding just required more button presses.... this is mainly down to the split at lvl 50. The reward for being a Jeweller more than compansates for the grind .... a return of 14k/per mat used (34 mats in jewel set 500k)

Also - jewels major reduction of SP required for plans - means that at around lvl 90 of the skill you can buy all race jewels and boosts and skills off a single tree.... its a skill point factory set of trees.


2. AFAIK - I mark up for 300% I get 3 times the money - how is this broken?

3. Increase in mats required on weapons and armours has only improved the leveling speed and end products. MQL/HQL now have a meaning and value other than look. As for jewels, with the auto fill and selling improvement its just more button press than other trees, time is about the same.


The little experience I have of range, I use 2 mats and make a load of pistol ammo, I join a team tank+healer. I fire 1 pistol shot at the mob. collect my 3k xp then wait till the next round. This could be a potential issue! as for stand alone, I guess range is abit of a support role like the aff spells. You don't miss em if there not there.

Auto launchers, in a group of 5 people using these things... you can drop a group of 3k mob instantly by firing all at once.

Range is the great unloved skill, view by may as a skill point gaining tree. Its been thrashed as a subject many times.... I read the comments on the ATS and prey one day it will be a different skill. After lvl 100 most of the tree require teaming/group work to avoid huge down time and reduce risk.



On you other points I agree....

Fight - easy to level (find a AoD and hit a lvl 250 once, blast it repeat)

My personal play style means that the majority of the time I avoid the 'chain killing' XP farming methods. I am guilty of leveling my healing of the back of a PL'ing Magic user. However all my other skills have been gained as a result of enjoying the world that is Ayts.

The idea behind the post was to balance against the 'constant nerf' comment earlier, the majority of things added over the patches have been buffs not nerfs. Yes some things have stayed the same.

[dakhound]

My personal play style means that the majority of the time I avoid the 'chain killing' XP farming methods. I am guilty of leveling my healing of the back of a PL'ing Magic user. However all my other skills have been gained as a result of enjoying the world that is Ayts.

the small problem I have with this method of play i.e against power levelling is that if I had not done it I would still have the large sense of hopelesness I had at the beginning.

I say this as I remember travelling to dyron when at level 30 melee and being incredibly scared of getting killed right across the oasis and then fahar tower and then to dyron itself.

now at a higher level I can confidently travel between lands and get alot more out of the game, its ok to say you level mostly just by enjoying the world of atys but its impossible to go outside pyr/majestic garden etc while at an inadequate level. At the lower levels all you want to do is explore and you quickly find this is not possible so you power level until you can make the most basic trips without being on the edge of your seat.

[hans1976]

The Cockroaches as fair AFAIK hate everyone!

Something I found out the hard way