Like I said iphdrunk and techlord who are pr harvesters will feel a little shafted by my idea. (remind you it's incomplete - still need to define non-pr harvesting).
From a third person perspective and minor knowledge of ToT nodes I can safely assume that a majority of people who attained any significant amount of levels spent their time in the roots pleveling without any relative danger. There are several safe spots that are easy to get to and near teleporters or entrances. They offer up to supreme mats which actually makes it 'easier' for you to level because of the xp boost.
So it really does hurt the PR harvesters the most. They are also specialized and that means a lot of people will suddenly be on equal ground with them. I hate to anger anyone by stating that PR harvesters have an unfair advantage, and yes you made that choice and I made mine and we have equal opportunity blah blah.
I just don't believe that pr foraging as it's own tree is something that would be as productive over the next 7.5 years this game is supposed to run. All the new people in all those years...going through the same deal...what happens when we just start posting on the beginning forums "hey just go to PR harvest once you have level 50! You're gonna end up there anyway!"?
They'll be killing all the zones except for pr by doing that....they should prolly dampen (not kill) the one common zone..that is also smaller. Logically anyways.
But that arguement about being 250 pr and 100 fyros? That blows anything to do with this away. It's the one thing I can't get around. Yeah I think you should be able to swap your pr level to fyros 250 and your fyros to 100 something else if you want....but that's a lot of work for the devs.
It means each character, involved or not has to be anylized. Including noob alts who are never used...I have two such characters. The only thing I can say is that if they do it now, it'd be a lot smaller disruption than if they waited till later.
Remember rite stanzas? yeah well the new 4 might offer some harvesting aids including superb prospects of specific areas among other things.
Anything I offer can be 'quick patched' by the devs with a rite...I think the system could be better, but I don't know what they have planned, they could make it better than I could dream.
So don't take my word for gold and don't get heated that you don't agree I'm 99.99% sure that none of this will ever enter the game.
Baldy
Guild Infinity, blue monkey scapegoat caster of spells making materials appear in guild hall while riding mektoubs to get things out of the ground so that they may be placed in there so people can level crafting and not making much money so always poor unless I go do things on my own but that's boring so I don't because I'd rather take brithlem's money because he has access to the guild hall and has lots of money so it...
josephm wrote:From a third person perspective and minor knowledge of ToT nodes I can safely assume that a majority of people who attained any significant amount of levels spent their time in the roots pleveling without any relative danger. There are several safe spots that are easy to get to and near teleporters or entrances. They offer up to supreme mats which actually makes it 'easier' for you to level because of the xp boost.
So it really does hurt the PR harvesters the most. They are also specialized and that means a lot of people will suddenly be on equal ground with them. I hate to anger anyone by stating that PR harvesters have an unfair advantage, and yes you made that choice and I made mine and we have equal opportunity blah blah.
Well, I just happen to know a few players (like me) that are experts in PR *and* their own lands...(almost 3 now), that chose diveristy over speciality. And not all the players have pleveled. Those same players have also doged patrols , gone through several mob pattern changes, etc. So, for a given homin, who is 190-210 in 3 lands, how does this apply?
So, in a very *friendly* way . Do you want supremes? get a pick and start digging...This thread sounds like someone who wants supremes and can't get them and, Imho, the big advantage of 250 race zones is diveristy in a same spot and, for example, GoC is far easier than the PR 250 zones, and those mats are very easier to strip to grind crafting
iphdrunk wrote:
for example, GoC is far easier than the PR 250 zones, and those mats are very easier to strip to grind crafting
what a bunch of crap .... i dig GoC every day i dig Undersprings almost every day ... both are easy .. once u learn the paterns of the patrolls and mobs u are set ... easy as that...
also u can dig in umbra till lvl 200 and them move to q250 zones just as easy.
Now as far as PR vs terrain specific ... if u they want to keep it as is then Nexus should not exist at all .. there is no reason to give matisians an adventage by giving them q200 sup mats that are easy to get to... or make them wondermats like in beta when all races could use them to dig / craft.
the point is right now there is no reason for anyone to do race specific foraging if u still end up in PR and looking back almost 5 months now ... knowing that i would of never gone for the forest foraging .. i would of set in PR with DT and Sin and Anissa and others and just move PR foragings instead of wasting my time and getting 200+ in forest just to find out that its all a big waste and going back to moving PR to 200+ just so i can make 97% amp of Q220
We're finishing up the work load I'll try to post the overland regions in a bit. Right now I just wanted to clarify..like I pointed out earlier, that I can plevel PR easily should I choose. Personally supreme stats are not so much my concern as supreme sets with colors.
The lack of any supremes in the above-ground terrain limits your choice colors at the highest levels. So yes, I will inevitably end up in PR. Everyone will. That's why we think the system needs a vamp. I wouldn't call making everything 'white or black' very diversified.
Please also consider that PR was only the first step since it was neutral ground. I guess I should have clarified a little better when I mentioned each simple thing means I need a balance to justify it.
If we're getting supremes above ground, I believe in adding several things to make them harder to get.
Baldy
Guild Infinity, blue monkey scapegoat caster of spells making materials appear in guild hall while riding mektoubs to get things out of the ground so that they may be placed in there so people can level crafting and not making much money so always poor unless I go do things on my own but that's boring so I don't because I'd rather take brithlem's money because he has access to the guild hall and has lots of money so it...
My problem with it is, as a Karavan follower, i'm not allowed to forage in PR, Jena forbids it. Therefore i can not harvest materials for the highest level equipment, unless of course i want to throw away my ways and turn to the Kami who would encourage me to dig and find the dragon, thus bringing about the end of the world.
No, i think some solution should be found for true Karavan followers who wish to forage and not be bound to forage in the roots for the best materials.
ferratu wrote:My problem with it is, as a Karavan follower, i'm not allowed to forage in PR, Jena forbids it. Therefore i can not harvest materials for the highest level equipment, unless of course i want to throw away my ways and turn to the Kami who would encourage me to dig and find the dragon, thus bringing about the end of the world.
No, i think some solution should be found for true Karavan followers who wish to forage and not be bound to forage in the roots for the best materials.
Jena forbids it!? Wonder why then, when we over-forage an area, a kami dood comes to punish us ( kami-tolerance ) ? Too bad Jena doesn't come down... mmmm spank me
Please understand that I will not name any region in particular because I feel that neither I, not any one person has a total knowledge of all terrain in ryzom. Nor is this post what I would term 'finished'. I would like responses to the general concepts before I started talking about specific geographics. So for the moment please consider that these may all be implemented anywhere and just kind of use your imagination to see what I'm trying to get at. I'm going to truncate it quite a bit to leave it open for each individual and what they know about the geography. I problably won't be as specific with the pros and cons as I have been. Otherwise this would problably take an hour to read (and five to type).
This post mainly stresses diversity. The more ways there are to get things, the more interesting things get. There are more secrets to be known or hushed, and each place you go will hold more than just a difference in pretty colors. It gives us more ways to think and interact with the environment (like not killing carnis! you'll see!). I believe once a strong base is set, then we will have a strong suggestion of what a fun way to implement each in a specific terrain...oh yeah, I said fun again. This post isn't about 'winning or loosing' it's not about or 'leaving the game'...Im doing this fun. That's right, like mods. Only you can't Mod an mmo. At least we can talk about it like it's our mod for a little bit.
Nodes: their qualities and their locations should vary as widely as the fauna/flora. These changes are ideas for all material levels basic-supreme unless stated otherwise. Nor do they all affect the nodes. At any one time you could grab 1-3 factors and say "I like that combo for that mat in that location"...and it would work!
Feel free to critisize, add, or explain why you believe something should go in a specific place. I'm going to do that myself later. This is just putting out If you do any of these, please keep an open mind to what other people are saying. In essence, if I like an idea that occurs after this, I'd dump mine or add to it where I see fit. So take into account
One thing here is that everything I'm suggesting is pretty much neutral or negative as far as difficulty from the player perspective. The pro's represent the value of materials and not how fast you level.
Location:
Each civilization may choose to have it's nodes shift according to varying factors.
1. Weather Varience (current implementation) self explanitory.
2. Mob Spawns (some mobs may spawn in different areas. You may notice herds of mobs moving in great droves to settle in another area. Easily witnessed just south of Min Cho at Kipee mull. I think it's valid. especially with herbivores. They munch and tear up the ground or leave droppings things grow out of etc.
-Spawn does not nessicarily mean that the mobs are there, for randomness sake and for variance I'd go ahead and put limit timers on it. As if the dung had to settle so the mushrooms could grow so they would poison a tree root and dump it's sap etc...stuff you have to use your imagination to explain that most people would say 'oh it's random cuz their jerks'....some could be instant though. Not everything needs poop.
-Random timers will mean that each node has more special factors than just weather, so it may be rather fickle as well.
-since the mobs are nessicarily where the spawn is, this would require experimentation...and luck where it concerns massive carnivores.
-The weather changes may still affect the node or not. Animals change their diet as seasons pass. If they're eating the wrong plant the right mushrooms won't grow in their poop. Some plants may find places to grow all year however.
*SUPREME/EXCELLENT 3.Changes in node location dependent on boss mobs...particularly ones that are really popular. Right now, under Kincherkya in the HoP...in winter I believe, excellent adriel bark loads. My group thought it would be worthless to get because I can already dig it elsewhere in the void higher than 150 (HoP limitation), and it's not near agro.
-In essence this is the same as mob spawn location. The difference is that to my knowledge, Kincherkya etc. don't really move until it changes seasons. So essentially the nodes are static as well.
-Item type should remain the same as according to the type of boss. So if it's supreme big shell and it loads under kincherkya in the jungle, should load under kincherblah elsewhere. So if I want to get a certain level, I might as well get it.
It makes killing these mobs later on much more valuable as well. For instance *** wants supreme blah that can only be found under boss Kincher. He's like 104. Ok, we're doing Kincherkya in HoP because we know that we can kill it and not waste the high materials. Otherwise we have to go to the void, get two groups together, split mats with non-guild or even in guild, take a half hour to kill a mob that may or may not load the mats that will the help wants, so they want supremes of what you dig etc. etc.....and that would suck!
-like I said right now, I'll just spawn in the void, and harvest better stuff for the level 100 guy, grab some for myself and others.
-The PR may or may not follow the boss mob rule.
4. Node spawn and respawn based on population of mobs in the area. This is similiar to following mob spawns. It also applies to 'static' mobs like some boss mobs.
- Node pops will time themselves on the density according to mob population. This is particularly effective for happyfuntimelivingonthe-edge people harvesting in the Carnivore cooridors. You don't want the harvesters to run out of nodes but you can't make the area safe with just a few mobs!!!
-this may apply to herbivores as well but will be less noticeable. In effect, there will be a constant supply of maximum material regeneration. This problem is solved with #5. #5 may also be applied to carnivore spawn tracking or even where it occurs (I'll explain!)
5. Node spawns according to mob interaction. In essence, when two or more mobs come together and interact. This doesn't mean they have to fight. Herbivores wandering around each other (maybe on Atys some mushrooms require two poops!) can cause node regeneration.
-This can occur in general radius with each node appearing over time, or this can mean nodes appearing on the exact location of corpse decay. It's also possible to make a different mat associated with the herbi or carni death.
-Population degredation may also result in degredation of material quality. This means either speed of regeneration or whether it's there or not. So at max population it's possible to grab a supreme or excellent node...that node may be there when until you harvest it, not to appear until there's a max pop again. Then again, if the mob isn't there, maybe the node will just disappear.
That's enough for location now. I'm off the clock.
Node regeneration time
1. Static regeneration for each type of node. Current Implementation...at least I think so. Basically I can kill basics and move 5 feet to get more basic or even better stuff.
The basic will be back after a time.
2. Regeneration of all nodes for a general area or specific material.
-Different forms include regenerating materials so that x basic must be there for x fine for x choice...or the ratio of good mats to small mats remains static.
3. Varied regeneration speeds of 'partial' nodes.
-Instead of waiting twenty minutes to strip the good stuff nodes pop will sources will hold more materials over time. So you can still pull a supreme each minute, but the end result (and possible extra full node bonuses!) are going to be pretty low...like 1.3 mats one minute...either two 1.2 sources the next minute or one 2.3
4.Regeneration rate/total quality/#of mats per source all affected by over all harvesting in season, previous season, or next season (for those of you who did the time traveling rite). This could have all sorts of variables associated with it.
5. This isn't really regeneration...but I don't know where to put it. call it 'spill over'. When a node stays there, but due to assorted factors..like change of weather..won't come back. Yeah you'd waste some time with a prospect when stuff isn't there anymore...but that prospect should give you a message.
As things stand you get them 'in the moment' and without fog turned on all the way, I think it's a lot harder for people on lower end systems. I can run things pretty high but I'm one of those guys who thinks your system shouldn't matter because you didn't buy it from the game company.
About now is a good time I guess to make a suggestion about where things to be implemented. It's still pretty generalized.
Lets say visc sap pops on a beach in tryker. Well in Tryker water is everywhere...but not really the outside regions. If water were the reason it was there, then it should problably be near water in other areas...outlying Tryker lands, Mektoub water hole in CoI etc. If there isn't water in a region...that region won't load visc sap. That race is out of luck. But they should have a balanced advantage. Like a boss in a region that has something else high in dodge. The same goes for elevation.
Of course, if we want to have all mats there, what if there were hints in the encyclopedia. "Wombai draw their water from deep in the ground with their long snout"
Damn I think I know where I can get some Visc sap!...I'll have to watch out though. The sap will problably only appear with a dense herd...unless they've drained it all? crap...I have to find just a few wombai or follow them to a fresh spawn where it's still plentiful.
I've really gotta go now. Not everything I want, but enough tinder for the fire...*eyes the torch in iphdrunk's hand.
Baldy
Guild Infinity, blue monkey scapegoat caster of spells making materials appear in guild hall while riding mektoubs to get things out of the ground so that they may be placed in there so people can level crafting and not making much money so always poor unless I go do things on my own but that's boring so I don't because I'd rather take brithlem's money because he has access to the guild hall and has lots of money so it...
ferratu wrote:My problem with it is, as a Karavan follower, i'm not allowed to forage in PR, Jena forbids it. Therefore i can not harvest materials for the highest level equipment, unless of course i want to throw away my ways and turn to the Kami who would encourage me to dig and find the dragon, thus bringing about the end of the world.
No, i think some solution should be found for true Karavan followers who wish to forage and not be bound to forage in the roots for the best materials.
RP is your choice. To limit what people do when they had that option open to them in the first place would piss a lot of people off unessicarily. Imposing material variations in rarity and difficulty/changes through flora/fauna should be more than enough.
Oh and remember, these changes are not at all likely to go through. I think they'll just fix things through stanzas. I lay this out for fun. I'm just hopeful that the company will at least use us as a benchmark for creative input in whatever they decide to implement.
Baldy
Guild Infinity, blue monkey scapegoat caster of spells making materials appear in guild hall while riding mektoubs to get things out of the ground so that they may be placed in there so people can level crafting and not making much money so always poor unless I go do things on my own but that's boring so I don't because I'd rather take brithlem's money because he has access to the guild hall and has lots of money so it...
Just a quickie, I dont really even want to chime in here since they have done enough damage to my primary skill... BUT...
When the rest of the civilizations have it as easy as Fyros folks... I will be more then happy to support this idea that you and your guildmate are agreeing with each other on.
Fyros is the ONLY civlization where you never have to leave town (and have guards covering you) to become an "Expert". No other lands have a zone above Q50 with this luxury... any wonder why everyone is wearing Fyros armor ?
vguerin wrote: Fyros is the ONLY civlization where you never have to leave town (and have guards covering you) to become an "Expert". No other lands have a zone above Q50 with this luxury... any wonder why everyone is wearing Fyros armor ?
I'm 99.99% sure that none of this will ever enter the game.
, gone through several mob pattern changes, etc. So, for a given homin, who is 190-210 in 3 lands, how does this apply?
