Am Faced With An In Game Dilemma

[xcomvic]

An additional point. Should the game situation improve sufficiently in the future, I would consider joining a regular guild again.

Ort

You can join mine

[riever05]

All open PvP areas will turn into unused wastelands.

Look at Ultima Online - it had open pvp and was losing so many players that they had to introduce a consensual pvp land to stay in business. The 'old' land is now almost unused, maybe 5% of the game's population go there -- even after they added faction wars and 'risk v reward'.

Only a minority in these games want open pvp and the developers have to realise that the open areas will lose 80%+ of their original population once so designated. If it is necessary to use those areas to 'progress' in the game, then that is when you lose 50%+ of your players who will refuse to adapt...

I pvp, and guildwar, and have RP'd bandits and murderers in other games, so I'm well aware of the small percentage of the game population that I get to interact with while pursuing those roles.

Feel free to argue with my opinions and statistics, then watch the actual figures in game start to mirror them as time goes on...

[aelvana]

With so little content due to a very premature release, I've found it hard at times to hold on to Ryzom. I've spent much of the past month idling, playing half-***ed, so to speak.

I haven't had as much fun or excitement since PvP went live. I've hardly done any actual killing outside of a few groups, and have never been attacked myself in Elusive Forest. Whether PvP in actuality happens a lot or a little doesn't matter to me -- what makes Ryzom fun now is that the game has changed, and now I'm REALLY able to interact with others and take part in real politics, and real power struggles. Ryzom is exciting.

Should PvP be made consentual only once again, I'll end up quitting at some point soon, as I'm sure many others will. I sincerely hope that the Nevrox staff reads this and realizes that there's a lot more fun and excitement being had in Ryzom, when just prior, people were reaching their wits end as far as a lack of things to do in the game pending more content.

Writing that last paragraph made me feel sleazy. IMO, no one should use threats to try to force Nevrox to make the game the way they want. After other people doing the same though, I of course felt a need to make it known that there are a lot of us for whom this has brought new life to the game for. If Nevrox is to hear threats from people who may leave cause of PvP, then they should also hear from those that may leave cause of a lack of content / game completion.

I'd also like to remind Nevrox, since one game with PvP was used as an example as to why it's bad business, that many games out on the market have PvP as an integral part and are doing great. The first MMORPG that comes to mind is Dark Ages of Camelot.

[riever05]

I'd also like to remind Nevrox, since one game with PvP was used as an example as to why it's bad business, that many games out on the market have PvP as an integral part and are doing great. The first MMORPG that comes to mind is Dark Ages of Camelot.

*grins* Played that - I enjoyed the combat there too, but again only a minority of the playerbase take part (or did when I played there in beta and beyond)

All the games that have a 'pvp' server prove how few of us care to take part. Daoc Europe has A pvp server - it serves all 3 language communities and has about 800 players at peak time. The overall playerbase at peak times is around 24,000+... (the figures are available 'live' on their website).

... since you wanted to use Daoc as an example

[lyrah68]

Look at the stories behind most...if not ALL of those women. Lizzy for one, and Lorainna(husband raped her almost daily for most of their mariage) for another were extensively abused, both (in theory with Lizzy, documented with Lorainna. Theory with Lizzy is that she found out her father was also raping her sister whom he had agreed to leave alone if Lizzy "went along" with his "loving attentions") were sexually abused by the men they harmed.

My great grandmother Knew Bonnie Parker(second or third cousins or something like that), her story is mental illness, coupled with heavy metal poisoning from a bad well (mercury and lead if I am remembering correctly, the well was on in a family farm in East Texas Piney woods and was closed in 1975 after testing reveled levels of lead and mercury that would cause brain and nervous damage), add to that that Clyde was feeding her drugs and also VERY abusive(rumors have it that he also raped their male "companion" but then that IS just a rumor).

Joan of Arc well I am not up to date on her story, and willing to admit that I got a glorified version in both French class and History. (young teen woman, wore mens clothing, which is WHY she was burned, she refused to put on the dress they demanded she wear. Plus a woman with a sword was just TOO much for men of that day to tollerate. Plus in that day women were literally seen as "unable to hear the voice of God" and she was hearing him, SO...it had to be the devil she was hearing.)
(and other than Joan, which thank you, I am going to Google that one, and try to get at the HEART of that matter, I don't justify the other womens's actions. I went through extremely trying times in my past, my life was threatened, as was my mother's, and we got away rather than kill.)

Refute this ONE fact, so far there has been ONE female serial killer...one(I forget her name, the prostitue that killed her John's from Florida or some such).

Can you count the number of MEN that have killed more than three people, or is it four that qualifies for "serial"? I know it is more than 20 since 1930. Or is it that women just don't get caught? I am sorry, I think the same defect that makes a person serial kill also causes them to trip up and get caught. I don't think we have them ALL behind bars, but sooner or later...

And granted, those men were most likely mental Wacka Loons as well.

And if I lived in Civil war times, I would have been working against slavery, I would have been TOO busy helping slaves get to Canada to BOTHER with guns, knives or any of that...other than for self protection. Sure I would have tended wounds (I hear those chains caused horrid wounds, among other abuses), but pick up a gun and shoot another human without that human threatening ME or my family....sorry, not happening.

Even in times of war, there are those that take to the field, and those that tend the home fires. There are MORE ways than one way to support a cause.

And am I sexist, when I was young I was a rabid "man hater", my mother taught me that to protect me. Luckily fate has delt me a tender hand after her death. It took my husband five years to show me that "not all men are pigs". And it took his years in the Navy to Unteach the racism of my mother (and the rest of my family up to her generation for that matter).

No Raynes, not ALL men are pigs, but those that ARE pigs sure do make it hard on the rest of the men. And NO not all women are Betty Crocker, June Cleaver and Donna Reed, but then...what modern man would WANT that Stepford wife kinda woman?

Am I perfect...nope, never claimed perfection, noble goal though.

Oh yeah, men are the ones who always comit the most violent acts...

Lorainna Bobbit, Lizzie Borden, Joan of Arc, Bonnie Parker, Erzebet Bathory and the list could go on and on and on.... So drop the sexist arguement, it's not really true.

Look your character lives on Atys. On Atys there are extreme tensions between groups and races. You saying to leave you out if it, is just as if you living in America in 1864 and demanding to stay out of the civil war. You want to be left out of it, then head out to the wilderness areas where you never have to deal with other homins. Otherwise deal with it because it is what is going on right now in Atys history.

[xcomvic]

*grins* Played that - I enjoyed the combat there too, but again only a minority of the playerbase take part (or did when I played there in beta and beyond)

All the games that have a 'pvp' server prove how few of us care to take part. Daoc Europe has A pvp server - it serves all 3 language communities and has about 800 players at peak time. The overall playerbase at peak times is around 24,000+... (the figures are available 'live' on their website).

... since you wanted to use Daoc as an example

Do you realize that OUR server does not even have 800 Active Players as a userbase? I doubt all the servers put together do.

[oddie]

Currently, I am wrestling with a dilemma. I've mentioned it to some of my guild mates so that they are aware of my concern. I thought it important enough to post here too.

What it boils down to is a great dissappointment in the current direction of the game.

The amount of roleplaying bigotry, combined with the PvP hate and vengence talk, is seriously disturbing. The ganking has begun, the smack talk is escalating, and vendetta attitudes are forming. I've seen this before in other games and it tends to spiral out of control. Eventually, in the other games, the server dies as players who are looking to play a fun game seek elsewhere.

A poll of Ryzom players showed that two thirds wanted either no PvP, or PvP restricted to Arenas. The current trend of the game may drive out these players, and leave an empty shell.

http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7437

The Prime Roots was the jewel in the games setting. It now appears to be in the process of becoming a pigs snout.

Unfortunately, we are labeled by our guilds. This makes it personal to me, and to others. I wish to choose my own friends based on respect, mutual interest, and mutual values. I dont want to be targeted because of some label over my head by someone who doesn't even know me. I prefer to not receive smack talk from teeny punks and emotionally unbalanced semi-adults. I don't want to be ganked because someone doesn't like a person in my guild, or if I am caught alone harvesting.

If I cause someone to be antagonistic to me I will take responsibility for my own actions.

I choose to play this game for fun. I don't find fun in bigotry, hate talk, vendettas, and ganking.

On the other hand, I have no problem with PvP in an honorable system, in consentual circumstances. I can see where some players would wish to test their skills against others in combat. I wish them well, and hope that they find the enjoyment that they seek.

I don't expect my guild mates to change their actions because of my concerns. They should play in whatever way seems right to them, as should I. I will not let the expectations of others to decide who I will like, or dislike. This for me is a personal choice.

What this is leading me to is the need to make a set of choices.

First, is it better for me to return to my solo guild of 1 to minimize the effect of the current server attitudes? I would sorely miss the frequent contact with the friends here in my current guild. If this is the right path for me, I would hope that these friendships still continue.

Second, if the current trend of the server continues to worsen, at what point do I leave the game? Hopefully, Nevrax will step in before this point is reached, but this is not assured. This decision will take more time to resolve.

I have traveled this world a fair amount. I have seen, first hand, the effects of real life ethnic cleansing, real life bigotry, real life hate. It is the scourge of humanity. I do not need it in the game I play.

This is what I am wrestling with. I post this here so that Nevrax and other players are aware of the effect of the current trend.

Whetever solution I eventually select, at least the concerns behind it will be out in the open.

Ort

ahhh come on how many people voted? How many people play the game???

i understand your concerns but first you say that you dont expect your guild mates to play differnetly because of your views, then you say maybe I should be in a solo guild. come on,,,,

I understand that this issue causes arguments and anger, but maybe you ought to go back to some more simplistic game or the playstation or something..............

I can understand that real life issues and war are much more serious then this game, but perhaps this is just a reflection of how many people are tolerant and how we learn about intolerance.....

Or at the very least, how each person needs to learn about life just like generations in the past and in the future. If human kind was really smart and learned something each generation and they did not pass on bad lessons, cause they were taught better by our elders, well this would be a completely different world all together

so do what you must, but one thing i have learned is that no matter what i need i always do what i want, and that i have motives for every action and choice i make, everyone does..........................

so i think what you are saying is a cop out. Cause if you hear that much bigotry and stuff maybe you spend too much time hanging around peeps you should not. I dont agree with every one every time every place, but in this game i can find some one to play with and when i am off playing well, the other kind of person does not bother me much. so what are you doing? who do you hang with?

Is there not enough people that share your views for you to play with?

[aelvana]

Do you realize that OUR server does not even have 800 Active Players as a userbase? I doubt all the servers put together do.

A number of estimates during prime time put the online population of Windermeer close to 800, actually. I'd figure that'd mean 2k or 3k active players on our server.

[lyrah68]

Since I have seen that there are a at least three guilds that have the man power AND spawns to perform an ACCURATE player count, at least for the time that they count...I will post again how I think it would best be done.

Large guild (yall know who you are) that has at least ONE person in EVERY area in game (each subdivision in large areas) coordinates via guild chat to insure that everyone is in place(point is to have one person in every area that comes up as a different /who listing). Then they all do a /who and count the names that come up...including themselves of course. Then they all add up their numbers. If they do this over a week or two...the trend becomes more evident.

I am interested in what this number is...should any guild choose to take up that challange.

A number of estimates during prime time put the online population of Windermeer close to 800, actually. I'd figure that'd mean 2k or 3k active players on our server.

[tetra]

I'd also like to remind Nevrox, since one game with PvP was used as an example as to why it's bad business, that many games out on the market have PvP as an integral part and are doing great. The first MMORPG that comes to mind is Dark Ages of Camelot.

There are MMO's that have proven the fact that open and pointless PvP like we have now, is generally unwanted by the majority of the players though. A very good example of this is some of the areas that went from NonPvP to +PvP then later back to NonPvP. It's an especially good example, because at the final stage of that switch, AO also introduced PvP with a point (land control areas similar but in some ways better than DaoC's RvR).

My first example is borg camp... It started off as a level 100ish area that was nonPvP. If you flew a few minutes east of it (flight is very fast), you would drop into a +PvP area, but it was mostly just used for travel so nobody cared. Point of the matter is that there were almost always people at borg camp killing stuff and you could generally go there at any time to join a random group of idiots you didn't really know but were able to get exp with.

At the same time, there was a similarly leveled place that was sort of a city (BCBLBDA). It was actually slightly easier to level there because of the way you could pull the mobs, but the area was +PvP. The problem with this is that like Ryzom, AO was pretty much open PvP with no restrictions if you were in a PvP area. This unrestricted penalty free system caused a problem... BCBLBDA was generally a ghost town since a level 200 player could drop an entire team of folks actually leveling there before they could even react usually. Some schmuck running through every once to kill your group when they happen to be on their way to a mission or something, causes folks to avoid it like the plague.

Borg camp was changed to a +PvP zone one patch with no real reason, and almost overnight it too became a wasteland.

AO Added a PvP dungeon that spawned an ubermob with (at the time) uberloot. Folks would rally behind their side, and try to kill off the other side enough to be able to take down tara every 18 hours or so.... even folks that didn't like PvP would often come to help and have fun. Occasionally when turnout was high enough to have multiple GS's (instanced/cloned versions of the dungeon), the two sides would work together to divide the GS's with a bit of combat still there... folks came to have fun and did what they could to be sure as many people as possible enjoyed it whenever possible depending on your server.

Remember the Borg camp and BCBLBDA +PvP ghost towns?... AO came out with an expansion that added land control areas (LCA). Individual land control areas were owned by guilds and allowed members to place towers that did things (stat/skill buffs). For 2? 4? hours a day, the LCA was attackable in PvP and the two sides would rush to defend credible attacks against their side. Folks disliked having to always run out and defend towers as often as they did, but there was generally some level of enjoyment there for most everyone. Getting back to borg camp and BCBLBDA, at the same time shadowlands came out with it's LCA's, borg camp and BCBLBDA were once again NonPvP areas. Almost overnight folks started going to these places again and a group of folks could almost always be found hunting there and having fun.

The folks who said open unrestricted penalty free PvP leads to uninhabited areas... they are correct.