Now it realy bothers me! Balance between Melee and Casting

[jackmor]

I posted before about how the caster is way more powerful than the melee.
Some peaple said the balance was good because melee can take more hits than a caster. So they said, the melee can keep swinging while the caster is out of Sap and HP.

I didnt beleive this because I didnt think the melee could realy keep swinging and hitting enough to add up to the damage delt out by the caster.

Now I know for a fact that I was correct. Tonight my friend and I went out to do some missions. We had to kill some boducs, cloppers and gories. No healers just me and him. We both have 100+ healing ability. He is 136 caster and I am 155 2h sword melee.

Here is the proof. I went to kill at the same time he did. He killed two mobs for my one faster. Yes, he was out of hp and sap. Yes, he did take hits toe to toe. I was out of hp and stam at the end of my second kill. The mobs were the same level. He was resting while I was still killing my second mob.
You may think, well it looks balanced to me. It is not. Remember that I am 19 levels higher the he is.

This is no bull story. If you think it is try it.

We also did a little dueling. He almost won twice and, it was so close if I made one mistake he would have. He did win easely when I switched to my 2h mace level 117.

I dont think this is balanced at all. Its not right.

[nathan7]

The roll of the tank is not always to absorb the hits and do massive damage. Every MMO I have ever played, the 'elemental' mage is always the high damage dealer. FFXI, for instance, Blackmage deals most damage, while tanks (Paladin/Warrior) take the damage (and deal a little bit of damage as well) while the white mage heals. Thats just one example. Do you really think that you should be tanking these mobs and dealing 2k+ damage at level 165+? Doesnt that kind of unbalance it there? Why dont we do that? Make melee get all the HP, hand them a weapon that will do about 2100 damage a swing, and give them some armor that takes away about 200 damage off each hit taken. Now, go out with your friend and lets see who does better? Im really not trying to flame you bud. I just really think the roles are played out exactly how they should be. Especially since this game is not dependant on soloing.

Zenith - Member of OmegaV.

[jojeezy]

I totally agree with Zenith.

Warrior = Take more hits & Do less damage
Mage = Do more damage + take more damage

OR

Heal Heal Heal Heal...
Didn't include off aff. def aff.. but you get the point

If melee did as much damage as the mages, what would even be the point in having mages do offensive spells? I mean, If you can do a ton of damage WITH armor, why even make a mage that eats hp/sap during casts and can't take hits. Sure you get some range.. but whats the point... the mobs are gonna get to you eventually.

Lets go with your idea and just let melee do as much damage and make offensive mages useless.

Jojeezy - OmegaV

4x Reroller - Master of Rerolling

[sathla]

FFXI, for instance, Blackmage deals most damage, while tanks (Paladin/Warrior) take the damage (and deal a little bit of damage as well) while the white mage heals.

My DRK/THF or THF/DRK could dish out more dmg than a blm/smn could 90% of the time Never underestimate the power of sneak/trick attack combos, for they are mighty!

I think it's just more dependant on how you use your skills and your gear... overall player skill comes into play with this also (timing, coordination, ect.).

[tridman]

Some peaple said the balance was good because melee can take more hits than a caster. So they said, the melee can keep swinging while the caster is out of Sap and HP.

I didnt beleive this because I didnt think the melee could realy keep swinging and hitting enough to add up to the damage delt out by the caster.

Now I know for a fact that I was correct.

Yes, you are correct. Melees deal less dmg than casters. But thats the way it should be. Because, as often said before, Mages aren´t ment to take much dmg.

Situation from yesterday: I (lvl 121 Elemental) and ai frind (lvl 116 Melee) vs. a group of four Gibais.

My friend taunted one of the Gibs while I was attaked by the other three. Since my spells have some range and deal a good amount of dmg. I was able to kill one before they reached me. Then the other two where on me. First spell -> failure. Second spell -> Hit (second Gib half dead) at this moment my Friend killed his Gib and came to my aide. The third Gib stopped attaking me and turned to my friend. But to late. The half dead one hit me one last time and I had this wonderfull view from above.
Then my friend killed both Gibais whithout any problems and Healed me.

Body count:

Gibbais: 1 Lvl 121 Elemental Mage
Lvl 121 Elemental Mage: 1,5 Gibbais
Lvl 116 Melee: 2,5 Gibbais

OK. The melee needet mor hits to kill the Gibbais, but he also got the time since he wore a Heavy Armore and had lots of HP.
Me on the other side wore my Light Armor and sustained the attaks of the two Gibbais only long enough to get one spell through becaus everything I wear gives an HP-Boost.

As a conclusion: Since I have no doubt that the situation you described above was exactly as you told I´t seems to me that there are situations wehere the mages have the better stand but as much situations where the melee got the advantage.

Sounds balanced to me.

__________________________________
Isdiran
Rising Phoenix Guild
Server: Leanon

[varelse]

Yes, you are correct. Melees deal less dmg than casters. But thats the way it should be. Because, as often said before, Mages aren´t ment to take much dmg.

Situation from yesterday: I (lvl 121 Elemental) and ai frind (lvl 116 Melee) vs. a group of four Gibais.

My friend taunted one of the Gibs while I was attaked by the other three. Since my spells have some range and deal a good amount of dmg. I was able to kill one before they reached me. Then the other two where on me. First spell -> failure. Second spell -> Hit (second Gib half dead) at this moment my Friend killed his Gib and came to my aide. The third Gib stopped attaking me and turned to my friend. But to late. The half dead one hit me one last time and I had this wonderfull view from above.
Then my friend killed both Gibais whithout any problems and Healed me.

Body count:

Gibbais: 1 Lvl 121 Elemental Mage
Lvl 121 Elemental Mage: 1,5 Gibbais
Lvl 116 Melee: 2,5 Gibbais

OK. The melee needet mor hits to kill the Gibbais, but he also got the time since he wore a Heavy Armore and had lots of HP.
Me on the other side wore my Light Armor and sustained the attaks of the two Gibbais only long enough to get one spell through becaus everything I wear gives an HP-Boost.

As a conclusion: Since I have no doubt that the situation you described above was exactly as you told I´t seems to me that there are situations wehere the mages have the better stand but as much situations where the melee got the advantage.

Sounds balanced to me.

__________________________________
Isdiran
Rising Phoenix Guild
Server: Leanon

Heheh

A very similar thing happened to me and my axe-wielding guildmate, only it was a series of Gruesome Kipesta that dropped me, and he was wearing focus armor when he killed them solo, then raised me. His 2h slashing and my elemental magic are at the same level, too. This happened twice - after that, I learned to back off the ele and stick to healing him while he bashed them.

Mages tend to not have enough hp due to spending all our time leveling magic, and spending the sp on new spells.

I'll be remedying this situation soon, by leveling up my melee to match my elemental.

[zarzen]

It'd be nice to have an option, for warriors, to also be able to get into the "take more damage, deal more damage" tactic. It would put more variety into the game and I don't see why we have to go by the book so much on this.

Similarly, perhaps some magic-users would be interested in non-healing magic to use on their teammates.

[lariva]

Heh, how about this:

lvl 200 elemental mage
vs 3 scowling gingoes (lvl 30 mob?)

shoot kill one - 300 hp/sap is gone
try to shoot - interrupted - 300 hp/sap gone
try to shoot - blinded, failed 300hp/sap gone
now I'm at 600 hp and have 2 shots if no gingo hits me
shoot - kill one
get a view from above because the 3d one hit me twice.

my lvl 140 fighter comes about - kills 6 without any issues whatsoever.

Yes, you are correct. Melees deal less dmg than casters. But thats the way it should be. Because, as often said before, Mages aren´t ment to take much dmg.

Situation from yesterday: I (lvl 121 Elemental) and ai frind (lvl 116 Melee) vs. a group of four Gibais.

My friend taunted one of the Gibs while I was attaked by the other three. Since my spells have some range and deal a good amount of dmg. I was able to kill one before they reached me. Then the other two where on me. First spell -> failure. Second spell -> Hit (second Gib half dead) at this moment my Friend killed his Gib and came to my aide. The third Gib stopped attaking me and turned to my friend. But to late. The half dead one hit me one last time and I had this wonderfull view from above.
Then my friend killed both Gibais whithout any problems and Healed me.

Body count:

Gibbais: 1 Lvl 121 Elemental Mage
Lvl 121 Elemental Mage: 1,5 Gibbais
Lvl 116 Melee: 2,5 Gibbais

OK. The melee needet mor hits to kill the Gibbais, but he also got the time since he wore a Heavy Armore and had lots of HP.
Me on the other side wore my Light Armor and sustained the attaks of the two Gibbais only long enough to get one spell through becaus everything I wear gives an HP-Boost.

As a conclusion: Since I have no doubt that the situation you described above was exactly as you told I´t seems to me that there are situations wehere the mages have the better stand but as much situations where the melee got the advantage.

Sounds balanced to me.

__________________________________
Isdiran
Rising Phoenix Guild
Server: Leanon

[sidusar]

He is 136 caster

You neglected to mention how high his fighting skills are. A 136 caster with a fighting skill somewhere near 100 will generally have a lot more hp than a 136 caster with a fighting skill around 30.

[jackmor]

I like these stories. I dont doubt their true. I would like to read some more of them, but from a melee point of view.

I realy want to here from someone that has both melee and casting up. Just to see if its worth it or, if its better with high levels in both trees.

Casting is far better than melee. If it were reversed I would feel the same as the people posting above and not want to change it.

I dont realy want this game to end up like alll the rest do you? The same pigion hole cast system. Come on, wouldnt you like to see your char have the chance to become more than the cookie cutter, eq your a this so, you do that, type of char.

The thought that I would have to be a, stand there and take the hits while the caster casts and the healer heals, meleetank. Just kind of puts this game on the shelf next to all the rest.

But I dont beleive that. This game is differant. Id like to see the roles mix up a bit.