Karavan Vs Kami Vs Netrual

[raynes]

To use your analogy Raynes, let's say I do tasks for the Republican National Commitee. Now let's say someone sees me at a rally or some such thing, and they happen to be a client of the company I work for.

They immediately stop dealing with us because we're a dirty Republican company.

Does that make sense? No. The actions of an individual do not reflect an organization as a whole. Even if 90% of the company are Republicans, that doesn't make the company itself a Republican entity.

Same applies with PF. Just because many individual guild members are Karavan allies doesn't mean that the guild is a Karavan ally.

Lets be a little more accurate here...

A client is completly against the ideas republicans beleive is true. One day they see 5 or 6 of the companies employees in uniform at a republican rally. Later that night they see a number of employees in uniform on TV at the RNC. The following day he gets visited at his house by employees in uniform asking him to support the republicans. Then he finds out that 80% of employess have donated to the RNC. Now would he stop doing business with that company becuase the employees support the Republican ideas? Yes. It wouldn't matter if the entire organization officially supported republicans. All that would matter is that the company has enough employees supporting them that he wouldn't want to be assiociated with them.

[vaquero1]

To use your analogy Raynes, let's say I do tasks for the Republican National Commitee. Now let's say someone sees me at a rally or some such thing, and they happen to be a client of the company I work for.

They immediately stop dealing with us because we're a dirty Republican company.

Does that make sense? No. The actions of an individual do not reflect an organization as a whole. Even if 90% of the company are Republicans, that doesn't make the company itself a Republican entity.

Same applies with PF. Just because many individual guild members are Karavan allies doesn't mean that the guild is a Karavan ally.

Yes that does make allot of sence. I do it all the time in my biz. If you dont have the same views as I do as far as my biz is concerned then cya. I will not do biz with ya. It happens allot in the world. Maybe you sould get out more.

When a wine rep take me out to eat. I size him up. I say does this guy think the same way I do. If i see this guy is on TV at a KKK rally. Do you think i am going to buy from him HELL NO. Why do you think wine reps lie and will do anything to win you over. Even be someone thay are not. Dude how old are you and have you ever run a biz.

Now for my customers. I dont care what you do. I dont care ifyour blue green black pink or yellow as long as you buy my wine. I will do anything to sell it to a republican, a democrat, hell i will even be a martian if that makes you by another case from me.

[raynes]

To put it as simply as possible. If someone sees that a large majority of the individuals in an organization are in support of something, then that someone will associate that organization with that something. It doesn't matter if the organization supports it or not, the association is made.

[vaquero1]

Sorry all to flame out today but work is HELLA boring today and nothing to do at all.

[ynet00]

I just want to jump into this whole Kami / Karavan /Neutral debate. The way the game is set up, it is pretty hard to stay absolutely neutral. Every guild will favor either the karavan or the kami, and will have predominantly one race as members.

The issue is really whether the guild is to be considered MODERATE or EXTREMIST, not neutral, kami or karavan. Kult of Kami is certainly extremist kami and Melinoe extremist Karavan. However, it is probably safe to say the Pegasus foundation and OoC would be considered moderate Karavan.

A moderate guild would probably try the utmost to be civil and understanding towards other races and guilds, instead of outright attacking anyone of an opposing race as some extremist guilds may do... Even though they may have a bias towards a certain faction, moderate guilds may try to promote peace between the factions instead of outright conflict, and thus attempt to achieve a neutral ground.

So I suggest these "neutral" guilds promote themselves more as moderate guilds, and they should stick to their values and resist the goadings of the extremists groups to draw them into conflicts they do not want to be involved with.

[josephm]

Haha Raynes all people originating from the 'bible belt' are Republicans? I know you didn't mean it that way, but it's so close to being true that it's funny.

As for doing business with people, on a small independent level this happens a lot. Corporations, owned by a multitude of faceless people follows one thing. The money Trail. Government is often the same because it's pretty much the largest company in any state.

Four homin civs on atys. Four different gov'ts (or large companies), and exactly what do they want? we're not so sure. Heck, I'm not sure I know what GW or any of my other representatives want. The only way to decide is to say that if you are Karavan or Kami fine. Go ahead, be that way. If you want to be neutral but still run missions (otherwise the game is boring anyways...) then don't enter PvP areas where your 'faction' is decided for you by your representative government. (or religion seeing as how everything is somewhat theocratic)

You say that you want to go to pvp areas that's fine. I doubt CP or many other guilds are going to say 'put up your arms' when you're fighting 3 kipucka and force you to be eaten. If you're just trying to tourist and there's no war/event going on you still can travel relatively safely...unless we're moody buwhahahahaha (I don't think that will happen to often.)

[bodywand]

If we come across somebody engaged in activity.. fighting a mob etc. we will wait for them to finish before making them eat dirt. All I have to say is this.. your actions, and not your words are what we (CP) use to decide who is an enemy.. if you want to be neutral then make sure your actions show it. We're not out to make enemies of everyone.. we're just out to have some fun with a part of this game that we all enjoy.

[madnak]

Well, maybe I am being a bit naive. I'm a programmer and couldn't sell water to a dying man in the desert.

What matters to me here is consent. A person can join PF with no knowledge of how the guild is viewed by Kami allies and no desire to do any role-playing at all. He may just want to build up his score and have nothing to do with Kami-Karavan. He isn't looking to join a big conflict and make big enemies - that's being forced on him.

From my understanding PF is meant to be a friendly haven for players of any kind. They're an out-of-character group who help make the game more fun for players. If joining them makes instant enemies of powerful guilds, or if there have to be faction-oriented rules in place for PF, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I can see an "us or them" attitude in RP, but people play games like these for different reasons, and some people who could benefit from Pegasus Foundation have no interest in PvP at all.

As a side note - my guild is very pro-Karavan. I've had a number of people think otherwise in the past couple days, I'll have to be louder about it O.o

[josephm]

Okok look at it this way, if you want to limit us from pkilling you (karavan scum!) then you have to limit yourself how you travel. You can reach Zorai from Tryker different ways, albeit one is very long and the other is very dangerous (if low level). That's really the only answer. Whatever we agree to, believe it or not there are people who do not read any forums about the game. 'Rules' will be broken by those who play the game as it is presented to them. How can we blame them? it's a pvp area. They don't nessicarily know that people don't want any pvp!

[madnak]

The question is about guilds like PF. What is Jivalax supposed to do at this point? He can't maintain the values of PF and also impose rules on factions. That basically ties his hands. I can understand an association. Just like a matis is more likely to be Karavan than a Zorai. But refusing to deal with PF categorically is like refusing to deal with the Matis.