Hate me if you will...

[nihir]

But if I hadn't paid for a box, I wouldn't be playing Ryzom. Yes, I understand that all MMO's have problems right out the door, and that's fine. But when I pay for a game, I expect it to work well out of the box and not have to wait for patches to fix problems that shouldn't be in the released product anyways. I hate this new paradigm of "Release quickly, patch later." My real problem isn't bugs, though. It's not even the features that are listed on the box that aren't in game. What gets me is the tediously boring foraging and slow-leveling and very expensive crafting.

There are two types of foraging/harvesting that work in a game. Simple harvesting that doesn't require attention but doesn't have a huge payoff. The harvesting skills in Ultima Online were like this. You use an item, target a location, and then you may or may not get some resources. The second type is something that involves attention and thinking, but has a good payoff. Puzzle Pirates would be a good example. It has involving minigames that have a decent payoff.

The problem is foraging is in the grey area in-between. It has a semi-minigame that requires attention, but isn't very fun and doesn't give much of a payoff. You get a few mats max and then have the downtime waiting for focus to return. You also can't get much XP now because of the new mat spec stuff.

There's actually some very simple fixes to this. The mats per pull could grow exponentially, instead of linearly. So at 20 Foraging, you'd still only get 1 mat per pull, but then at 50, you might get 3, at 100, you could get 6, and continue growing from there. The focus required to use advanced skills to get more mats makes it not worth using the advanced skills.

XP could also be changed to reflect more heavily on the number of mats. The time it takes to forage could also be lowered with source times halved but actions sped up twice as much.

The problems with crafting are mainly due to how expensive it is. New missions should respawn much quicker (<15 minutes). I don't see why this wouldn't be done since missions don't give too much money. Back on newbie island, it was easy enough to run from town to town doing the crafting missions, but that's not possible or feasible on the mainland since there's only apprentice overseers in the main town (in Matis land) and the crafting missions usually require many different fields of crafting to finish.

The vendor system, from what I've read about it, is terrible. It leaves a lot to be desired. With the hidden stats on armor, there's no real way for someone to intelligently buy armor. There's also no way to group items, for example, a suit of armor. Why not just get rid of all the vendors except raw mat vendors and have a single market place where you can browse through and filter items and also search for items based on characteristics (including the hidden stats!)?

As it is, I'll probably play for a month or two to see if things get better. Yes, I'm tired as the rest of you of reading these "I'm Quitting" posts, so I tried to make this be different than those. I provided the ways I think would fix the problems I perceive and have run into.

Godspeed and bona fortuna to Nevrax. Turn Ryzom into a true Saga.

[ctusk]

Money - Money is not the issue, I can dig up 5 million in a day. Problem is, there is nothing meaningful I can buy for it.

Economy - There is none. There is no reason for me to go sell things I craft because - well, there is nothing I can buy for the money. Selling mats would be a good thing, but the vendors already pay premium prices for those that no player can compete with. So there is no market for mats either.

Vendor system - Take a look at Star Wars Galaxies for a nice and well working vendor system.

What they released is .. well ... a decent engine and ok graphics ... now let's try to actually add some *game content* and stop *nerfing* existing players in a futile attempt to fix the screwed up game balance. My 2 cents.

[kisedd]

But if I hadn't paid for a box, I wouldn't be playing Ryzom. Yes, I understand that all MMO's have problems right out the door, and that's fine. But when I pay for a game, I expect it to work well out of the box and not have to wait for patches to fix problems that shouldn't be in the released product anyways. I hate this new paradigm of "Release quickly, patch later." My real problem isn't bugs, though. It's not even the features that are listed on the box that aren't in game. What gets me is the tediously boring foraging and slow-leveling and very expensive crafting.

There are two types of foraging/harvesting that work in a game. Simple harvesting that doesn't require attention but doesn't have a huge payoff. The harvesting skills in Ultima Online were like this. You use an item, target a location, and then you may or may not get some resources. The second type is something that involves attention and thinking, but has a good payoff. Puzzle Pirates would be a good example. It has involving minigames that have a decent payoff.

The problem is foraging is in the grey area in-between. It has a semi-minigame that requires attention, but isn't very fun and doesn't give much of a payoff. You get a few mats max and then have the downtime waiting for focus to return. You also can't get much XP now because of the new mat spec stuff.

There's actually some very simple fixes to this. The mats per pull could grow exponentially, instead of linearly. So at 20 Foraging, you'd still only get 1 mat per pull, but then at 50, you might get 3, at 100, you could get 6, and continue growing from there. The focus required to use advanced skills to get more mats makes it not worth using the advanced skills.

XP could also be changed to reflect more heavily on the number of mats. The time it takes to forage could also be lowered with source times halved but actions sped up twice as much.

First, you talk about the new mat spec exp. To me that is irrelevant if you are a crafter. As a crafter, I need piles of mats to level. Piles of mats just to make quality products that are in demand. Thus, when I forage to get the mats I need, I get plenty of foraging exp. I don't need extra mat spec exp. I level at a pretty good clip just collecting what I need.
I do agree that crafting exp is a royal pain in the butt. This isn't any different that any other MMO I have played. I wish that someone would come up with a fun and enjoyable advancement system. I await the day.

I already pull between 2-4 mats each time I harvest. This should happen around level 50-60 if you have the right actions set up. I very seldom rest to wait for my focus to go up. A good regen and self heals can keep you going for a long time. Also stanzas that use only the focus you need.
I will admit that starting out is pretty slow. 1 mat pulls and all, but it does get better.

Patch 1 is going to change harvesting to so several of the things you suggest. More exp for more mats, though it could be more. A more linear rise in exp as you level versus the highs and lows that now exist. Better prospection actions.

To be honest, I haven't played a game yet that has a good crafting system. I've played games where it might be fun to make an item in its own self contained world, but they all require you to "grind" junk to level.

[stellus]

Joining a good guild can alleviate a lot of the pains mentioned above. Not to say that everyone should be forced to join one, but it does help a lot. Mainly because the members help eachother out a lot by supplying eachother with the things they need.

Sure there's some bugs that need to be taken care of, but it's easy for me to see past it because I enjoy the game. Everyone has their own preferences and desires in what they want out of their game - it's understandable that some people find some things frustrating while others don't.

Hope your experience gets better so you can stick around with us Nihir. If not, best of luck with your future endeavors.

[nihir]

First, you talk about the new mat spec exp. To me that is irrelevant if you are a crafter. As a crafter, I need piles of mats to level. Piles of mats just to make quality products that are in demand. Thus, when I forage to get the mats I need, I get plenty of foraging exp. I don't need extra mat spec exp. I level at a pretty good clip just collecting what I need.

True, if you are a crafter, foraging will level up quickly enough while just getting what you need. However, giving more XP along with exponential mat pulls would make it much better.

I already pull between 2-4 mats each time I harvest. This should happen around level 50-60 if you have the right actions set up.

At level 52, I pull 2 while keeping a decent balance of focus. If I wanted to pull 3, I'd run out of focus after a couple sources.

To be honest, I haven't played a game yet that has a good crafting system. I've played games where it might be fun to make an item in its own self contained world, but they all require you to "grind" junk to level.

I've had fun crafting in Ultima Online and I thought the system was decent. The difference between a lot of other games and Ryzom is that you can macro the grind. You can't in Ryzom. I guess this is a good thing overall, but... *shrugs*

How about being able to recycle items? You can recycle an item down and get it's parts -1 mat in each category?

[nihir]

Joining a good guild can alleviate a lot of the pains mentioned above. Not to say that everyone should be forced to join one, but it does help a lot. Mainly because the members help eachother out a lot by supplying eachother with the things they need.

I hate being forced to join a guild, even though I am joining OOC.

Sure there's some bugs that need to be taken care of, but it's easy for me to see past it because I enjoy the game. Everyone has their own preferences and desires in what they want out of their game - it's understandable that some people find some things frustrating while others don't.

I haven't noticed many bugs and none have interfered with my gameplay. It's more-so the missing or boring features that bother me.

[nihir]

Bump. I worked hard on this post.

[tayster]

I asked this a while ago, and never got an awnser for it. Has there ever been an mmo that's been "perfect" coming out of the box? Hell, theres a lot of non-mmos which require patches to work just right. It is completely unrealistic to expect any game to be just perfect in its release. Would it be nice if it did? Yes. Should it be? Yes. Will it be? No.

Anyways, sorry you're bored. This game isn't everyones cup of tea. I hope ya the best in your ventures.

[sulbe]

...I hate this new paradigm of "Release quickly, patch later." My real problem isn't bugs, though. It's not even the features that are listed on the box that aren't in game.

I find this hilarious. I'm sorry, but I just do. They've been working on the game for more than 5 years so "Release quickly" doesn't really fit. Also, I played a little in the Open Beta and was amazed at the general understanding from most players. Most people felt the Open Beta was for Preview before paying. Beta Testing is just that. Test the beta version before it hits gold.

I'm not saying all players who beta tested Ryzom had this outlook. I'm sure there were a good many people who were providing productive additions to the bug lists, and I even understand that some of the reported bugs from Beta are still repeatable now.

But it's a business. Find the event horizon of the game and take the blind leap as you push it out the door.

You can either accept the fact that MMOs will follow this same course forever more, or go with FPS, though like someone said, they're not immune to this type of behavior as well.

*offers up Candyland*

[korin77]

I don't know about you but I have no problems with focus. By the time I am finished with my forage action and find another one, I am usually full on focus again. Always max out your dex/will if you are having focus problems. I have never used mat spec to xp and I think people who powerleveled with that were really hurting themselves. Whenever they died, they receive huge huge amount of DP. Without the mat spec now, they will take so much longer to recover from it. I am actually not sorry that this came in. My levels are balanced and I never have this problem of too much DP.