Ryzom

Hi all, first off lets not have anything here in flames. I have come across a problem that i can't quite figure out, i've spoken to several other major crafters ingame and it seems we all have the same problem.

Quality Level of mats has no effect on end price of item.

Infact, the Choice, Excellent or Supreme level of Quality level mats seems to have little effect on price of item.

The only thing anyone seems to care about is the damage and hits, armour protection level and smash, pierce, slice protection and if the amp was made using pha amber...

Heres the problem:

A Q50 Weapon made from Q250 Mats at Supreme level from the best type of mat usable in making it, is technically worth the exact same amount of money as a Q250 Weapon. Who will pay 500k for a Q50 amp tho?

Now from a harvesting point of view there is no point making a Q50 weapon from Q50 mats, as the harvester gets no xp getting these mats.

Pricing, can certainly be based on the type of mat being used on construction, but since people only want the very best we can make, most mats are ignored. Why buy a longsword made from perfling if you can get one made from oath.

Similar a Crafter wont buy lower spec mats to make weapons, armour etc they only buy the best and try to get them at the lowest price. They will then try to sell the item for the maximum possible.

And Harvesters will only harvest the best they know of in quantity to sell them.

All other mats are used for skilling up leveling.

So whats to be done? Standardise prices? no chance this will happen, some people will say its a good thing and others will say price fixing is cartel and so on.. How do you set a price for an item thats made at lvl 50 using mats that can make any weapons from q50-q250? how do you do that?

all this is without getting into how long the item lasts...

rugster wrote:How do you set a price for an item thats made at lvl 50 using mats that can make any weapons from q50-q250? how do you do that?

Err... if I have to go out of my way to make a customer his items, there will be an overcharge. Considering harvesting QL100 or QL1 stuff doesnt cost you a thing; and if you're at a QL250 spot when you harvest... making the item with those shouldnt mean a price raise for the customer; since it doesnt boost the item in any way and doesnt force you to go to a different spot.

hivewasp wrote:Err... if I have to go out of my way to make a customer his items, there will be an overcharge. Considering harvesting QL100 or QL1 stuff doesnt cost you a thing; and if you're at a QL250 spot when you harvest... making the item with those shouldnt mean a price raise for the customer; since it doesnt boost the item in any way and doesnt force you to go to a different spot.

Yeh, if you are basing price on the q level of the item, but what about if you use oath instead of perfling or pha instead of hash or sha or soo..

What if the mats are mixed, choice, excellent and supreme? What if you failed and got a weird item, which is Q44.

also you seem to be saying that an item made from choice is no better then an item made for supreme or excellent or even basic..So long as it is Q250.

I can make Q30 Swords that do higher damage then Q50 ones. How do you sell a Q30 weapon which out damages a Q50 one?

I agree with Hivewasp, just agree with the customer on a certain quality and stats for an item (approx) and harvest and craft with the mats u deem fit. Its not the customer's problem.

pcheez wrote:I agree with Hivewasp, just agree with the customer on a certain quality and stats for an item (approx) and harvest and craft with the mats u deem fit. Its not the customer's problem.

If they really insist on using specific mats,... let them bring those to you if they don't want to pay a hell of a lot of dappers for the time spent looking for too specific things and the probability of DP when moving between spots

pcheez wrote:I agree with Hivewasp, just agree with the customer on a certain quality and stats for an item (approx) and harvest and craft with the mats u deem fit. Its not the customer's problem.

here you are making items to order tho. And individually, how would you price items being put on a vender to sell to mr anon?

I base prices for items on two factors - the quality of the item and the mats used.

I believe making an item from anything less than choice mats is a waste of time, so all my prices are based on choice mats and the quality of the item. In these cases, I usually charge 1k per 1q, so a q50 item would be 50k. This model I use for items up to q100 as those mats are quite easy to obtain.

If I was to make an item from excellent or supreme mats, I would charge more due to the increased difficulty in obtaining such mats. I would also charge more for items above q100 as it becomes more difficult and time consuming to obtain good mats above q100, partly due to the distances needed to reach the areas where these mats can be found and the higher level mobs in these areas. Also bear in mind I only make weapons and light armour, neither of which require a lot of mats. Items such as heavy armour require something like 140 mats to make, so I feel it is justified to ask more money for them.

If I were to sell mats, I would only sell full stacks and base the price on the vendor price. A stack of choice q100 big shell is worth about 75k if sold to a vendor, so I would probably sell it for 100k, the increase being accounted for my time harvesting them. Again this would only hold true for mats up to q100 as higher q mats are more difficult to obtain.

In the end, it is down to each vendor to decide what their items are worth, and down to the customer to decide whether they want to pay that amount. I have seen q80 magic staffs being sold for 600k or more. I believe this is perhaps a little excessive, although it is claimed these staffs were made from supreme prime roots mats, so others may feel this price in justified.

hmm, i see what you're saying, i thought of pricing, based on damage output, protection level...healing level or offensive casting speed, power..etc, So that a Weapon might be damage 133 costs 133k, armour with 101 protection in smash, 78 in pierce and 80 in slice is worth 101k based on its max prot number or an amp with 99% healing speed and 80% power is...well i dunno lol, i havent made one like this, amps i think are more difficult to price based on output of the item.

I think tho that the quality level of the item has no influence on the price, as i can make one Q50 sword that does 75 damage using choice and another using choice but 90 damage. Now, you can't price them both as being Choice Q50. with the same price.

As for the stack of bigshell, you'd be selling it for less then 30% of the avg, i sell choice at 2k each now and i know most people are buying at 3k per mat minimum. but i worked out that at 3k it would cost more money to buy mats then what the item would sell for.

I sell specific mats like Pha, Big Shell, Oath for more then i would for cuty, splinter or perfling or soo or hash etc.. because they are the best mats. Be they choice or excellent or surpreme..

rugster wrote:I can make Q30 Swords that do higher damage then Q50 ones. How do you sell a Q30 weapon which out damages a Q50 one?

The way I see it, your Q30 that outperforms a QL50 is a choice/excellent mats weapon and the QL50 a basic made.

The QL is also a factor to consider, but the example might not be the best here considering Q30 and 50 comes from the exact same harvesting spots

Which customer is asking? someone who's able to use a QL50? IF he's able to use QL50, and you propose him a great QL30 that is at its potential maximum,... sorry but your sword sucks; the customer has all rights to expect a QL50 at it's max potential since his skill level will work with the QL to define his damage. He probably expects to grow with the weapon, not be capped as soon as he bought it (ignornig the fast decay rates atm).

If you just plan to make random items and store them on the NPC merchants for when they come in game; you're free to devise your own formulas... personally I'll align myself on what the market has to offer, and if my weapon is 25% superior to what the market offers, the price may be 30% more... offer vs demand vs debt vs productivity.

In the end, if you're harvesting your own materials you're already on a 100% benefit... the only cost is the time you spend. If you buy your mats from a bunch prospectors, you'll have more time to work on items, but less profit... up to you to determine your margins, and the value of your time.

hivewasp wrote: In the end, if you're harvesting your own materials you're already on a 100% benefit... the only cost is the time you spend. If you buy your mats from a bunch prospectors, you'll have more time to work on items, but less profit... up to you to determine your margins, and the value of your time.

and here is the real problem. Because you make items from items you harvest and have 100% profit, does this give you the right to trash the market and undercut all the crafters who buy mats from you?

Again there is a problem, sure you can adopt the attitude as a single player and ignore the rest of the gaming society, this will lead to repercussions. Or there has to be some kind of compromise. You cannot just harvest mats, get the best, then undercut the entire servers avg price without repercussions. You can certainly give weapons away, or sell for less to guild or friends, but to mr anon, when he sees you selling at 100k for a Q100 sword he will tell everyone that the guy trying to sell a Q100 sword for 200k is not worth it. When the sword is probably worth 500k.