Ryzom

It was an interesting point you brought up!

I don't think any race could rightfully look back on their history and be content in thinking they hadn't wronged in anyway!

I guess the lore is there to be learned from. Not to look at and decide which race is the better or worse. They have all had their good and bad traits, and deeds.

You could compare it with real life! All the super powers that have been and gone, got their rise through imperialism and persecution of other nations!

Let me put this out for you to consider. The lore is there for us to look back on and see which direction our ancestors took our nations, and how the factions treated one another. Players have had the chance to co operate, but did the matis decide that they will go to other lands to possess outposts, not content with only owning all outposts in their own continent! Fyrosian Kamist's have been without high numbers of outposts for so long, they are content with sharing their continent with nuetral and multi-national outpost owners. Is it a case of "needs must", or does it show a more domineering, imperialistic approach Matis players want there nation to have?

*Another question i'd like to ask, after playing for a while and aligning yourselves one way or another. Looking at the lore in-depth, would you consider changing/moving to the civilisation that most suites your ideals and play style? For myself personally as a player. I am a passionate player, I do believe in loyalty and honour, that's why I have little time for disserters (I have more respect for a pure blood Matisian then any disserter one way the other, and will always view them with a degree of distrust). I do have a firey temper and at times pure blood lust! When i believe passionately about something, you will see it come across one way or another, I don't often like to be away from the desert. I know as a player I am pure blood Fyrosian.

Can you see yourself suited to the race you have pledged loyalty too?

Beautiful!
But do I consider myself loyal to any particular race or religion? No.
I dont know, I have family spread all over Atys, but only care about two to the extreme you mention!
But you gave me alot to think about..
Beau

It is my opinion that racial lore has been ignored to a point where they are mostly just 'toon skins'. However, that was not always the case and some racial identities do remain intact.

Many of the present cultural beliefs and attitudes in game come from a group of players who wanted to change the national alliances, forming a stronger Tryker/Fyros connection in an effort to weaken the Matis position. Which was a very reasonable and (prefame change), said to be an attainable goal. This movement gained a good bit of steam, so much so that the MoaVoa documents removed references of the Fyrosian military occupation of the lakelands for the water trade and has pushed the Matis slavery issue so strongly that it even outweighs the massive slaughter of Kitin-fleeing Trykers who died against a barred Zoari gate. The push did eventually have a big pay off. A pro Fyros Governor was elected by the Trykers along with many, many voting alts.

The present Tryker Governor is descended from Loria, an old Hero that humbled the Matis, and she has given the Fyros a great deal of authority over Tryker matters. The Fyros are the lead investigators of the assassinated Governor and have held any and all materials and witness's relative to the case. A case that has been in a permanent stall. The Governors ties with Dios were/are uncomfortably tight for those allied with the Karavan and/or the Matis.


Now to answer the underlying theme of the first post.

The reasons the Matis own more OP's are simple; they work for them, they are more organized, more cohesive, more experienced and more mature then their opponents. For many this is an impossibility because they feel that all Homins must be equal and if one group is more successful then another, it can only be because the winning group cheated.

Someone who is not as successful as another must be a victim and therefore the victim must be good, while the successful group has to be undeniably evil or else they would not be ahead. Weaker = good guy, Stronger = bad guy. Beliefs, actions, creeds and deeds are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that one side is stronger and that is an impossibility in a moral world. That is how the KA has become the embodiment of evil here on Atys, because they are successful.

Pero

danolt wrote: Someone who is not as successful as another must be a victim and therefore the victim must be good, while the successful group has to be undeniably evil or else they would not be ahead. Weaker = good guy, Stronger = bad guy. Beliefs, actions, creeds and deeds are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that one side is stronger and that is an impossibility in a moral world. That is how the KA has become the embodiment of evil here on Atys, because they are successful.

Pero

Yes, I agree. I am weak.

I just realized that I failed in so many aspects, that I can't look at myself at a mirror and feel good.

• I failed to keep the lakelands out of the struggle between the big factions
• I failed to help in the construction of the Kami Sanctuary, because I thought to bring at least some knowledge to the lakelands in form of the Karavan Temple would be better than no presence of the higher powers in New Trykoth at all
• I failed in the defense of the lakelands against imperialistic intruders
• I failed to unify all tryker guilds to one cause

You say, that makes me lesser than yourself Pero. Think about it, you invited the Matis to the Lakelands, you will be the one who may have to deal with them in the future, and there will be no true free Tryker left, to help you.

The KA will help in the destruction of all Atys and you will be their tool.

Trini
Tryker Refugee

danolt wrote:It is my opinion that racial lore has been ignored to a point where they are mostly just 'toon skins'.

Cant agree more...and it's not new.

In my opinion, some of the "old" trykers, the one always talking about lore, racial lore, borned under Wyler's leadership, the ones decorating their flat with matisians popstar posters...forgot to read (all) the lore, and choose their avatar just because they were cute.
By reading Wyler's bio, they could have seen that their leader was not a karavan zealot, but a moderate karavan, (with a part of kami in him ?).
They forgot that he grew up in a kami tribe, and was called to be their leader (will i vote for someone not sharing my culture and ideas ?).
They forgot that for Wyler, heart was stronger than religion (he married a Tryker Kami for those who dont know).
I'm not saying here that Wyler was kami, he was not. Wyler was a bit more complex.
Im just reacting on the fact that some trykers are always complaining about the real "tryker identity" and some other trykers choice, when they borned (and choose to) under the leadership of the most moderated one.
But considering their attitude when Wyler was assasinated, maybe "their native Governor" was something they didnt care at all.

I have always admired the way the cultures were set up to be uneasy in their alliances, with the perfectionist hierarchical Matis teamed with the easygoing independant Trykers on one side, and the combative competative Fyros in bed with the mystical philosophical Zoraï on the other. Unfortunately very few players "do" philosophical Zoraï, so that potential conflict turns into a bragging contest between blue and brown skinned Fyros

The Trykers have the role of underdog in Atysian lore, but seem to attract players who do embody the Tryker fun loving spirit -or at least the loud noticeable ones do
Myself I am happy as a Matis, superior and condescending to the less advanced peoples of the other nations, but a "new, enlightened Matis", meaning I will try to spread the benefits of Matisian civilisation by example and diplomacy, not coercion.

To answer Final's question yes, wholeheartedly yes. Faa is and will stay tryker at heart. She's swift, fast to make decisions (sometimes hasty), independent, not accepting orders from anyone and respecting the people who act like her, she's also not doing the common confusion between freedom and anarchy. Strongly beliveing in "live and let live" adage she still thinks the Federation should be an example of different homin groups bearing with each other so she'll always take part of the community that will look endangered to her.

She's not taking words at their first meaning but also look into them and tries always to see what the speaker's intentions are, dreams of moving back to Avendale someday when not only the karavaneers will have a teleport there, longs for her old mentors and friends now long time departed, and has a lot of friendship outside both her civilisation and religion. Years that have passed had learnt her some patience and even if sometimes she feels lonely without all the great friends who time ago were populating Fairhaven she looks forward to the Tryker developpment, knowing life is long and there is time for everybody in the end.

While oscillating between irritation and amusement to the legendary matis arrogance she's most saddened and woried by their total isolation and still looking into some means of opening some door for a better communication with the other nations. Zorai subpopulation worried her for a long time as a disbalance factor but nowadays they seem to develop better and better. Fyrosians have been always close friends because of her personal history: Faa has spent many years in the Pyr academy making thus a lot of friends in that area. She still respects their thirst for knowledge at all costs considering it a form of liberty, whatever the gods may say.

If at the begining she may have had some doubts now she feels more tryker than anything else.

==============

OOC:As for KA, Ops, if you have to be responsible while successful etc, etc, etc I belive the discussion is irrelevant to the thread as it was put here, there's enough "General" section for that.

*Cheer* for Trini, shortly followed by a one fingured salute to the Matis and their Lackys.

True Trykers and their ideals may be outnumbered, unpopular and diposed by foreign guilds or those under the sway of foreign influence.

Wyler signed the treaty with the line in it about faith over nation but I dont think he ever could have envisaged how this would have been used by the Matisan Alliance to break the lakelands apart.

True though it is the Zorai closed the gates on our forefathers but the Zorai of today show more compassion, should they not be forgiven? while the in the Matis of today the blood of Jinjovitch seems to run strong.

Weakness is shown by those who blindly follow the Zealots of a faith hoping that in numbers they will reap the crumbs from the table.

There are still "free" Trykers of both karavan and Kami persuasion for that is the essence of freedom, one of the core Tryker values.

Those free Trykers who hold true to Tryker Values above all things and the love of our Lakes are not weak, we have been swept aside by a war we do not want and tried to stay out of waged by those using Jena for their own ends with no regard for any history or circumstance.

The truly weak are those who blindly follow this Tide. Organised maybe, I just see a flock of sheep with a few shepherds and thats not Freedom.

those matisans who you critisize have kept your lakelands free, the last time I visited your fine lands he found all of the vital resource areas held by upstanding tryker guilds who value the tryker way of life. I commend those tryker guilds who used their brains to secure the lakelands for future generations by working with their natural allies.

you are still free, it wouldnt surprise me if govener wyler was assasinated by someone wishing to push another races agenda on you, Your new goveners seem to be very pro fyros instead of seeing them with the natural suspicion many trykers do.

"natural allies"

"Baaa, Baaaa" said the Sheep

Damn right I'm still free, and still Tryker, and dont need the order of "natural allies" as a crutch to prove it, my allies are free Trykers Kara or Kami.

Freedom, Equality, Sharing with fun in the sun or I may go for a swim, sometimes history remains distant somtimes it weighs heavy but its how you choose to shape the present thats important.