Senator Dios is taking a trip..

[Tidings]

Homins, here is a message which I have recently received from Senator Dios:

"To all Homins, Kami, Karavan, Neutrals and all those that attended my past two conferences in Fairhaven and Pyr.

I have reviewed with my Emperor your comments and concerns. The Emperor has thoughtfully read them and drafted a letter to the other three leaders of our nations to ascertain their feelings on this matter.

I intend to take the Emperor’s letter and a copy of the past proceedings to the other rulers of Atys for their review and additional comments.

I am therefore asking for a group of brave Homins to escort me from Pyr to Yrkanis and from there, after I have consulted with the King and Queen, to continue on to Fairhaven. There I will converse with my old friend the Governor - Ailan, the Lady of Loria and Rehn Kirran her Deputy.

Inspector Ulyros has expressed interest in joining us, as he wishes to talk with me concerning the Assassin and is additionally looking for Wormbreath in the Yrkanis area. I will therefore ask for some of you to act as Leaders in our Trek, to allow Ulyros and I to discuss those matters along the road.

At Fairhaven I will rest for a while and then I intend to continue my Trek onwards to Zorai and finally return to Pyr.

All Homins that wish to help, please meet at the Cerakos fire gate in Pyr on Saturday the 20th January at 7:00pm GMT (2:00pm EST) for Arispotle and Sunday the 21st at 7:00pm GMT (2:00pm EST) for Cho.

This will be a fine opportunity to show that Kami, Karavan and Neutrals can work together, and on the way we may even remove some of the Kitin menace that threatens us all.

Also, let me mention that this would be a fine way for all Homins to lend a hand in helping our younger Homins, fresh from the Rangers Camp, to reach the other lands.

I will spend 45 minutes with the king in Yrkanis to convey my message from the Emperor, this would be a good time for you all to enjoy the city and see what the merchants have to offer."

[iphdrunk]

(slightly offtopic and OOC)

I don't pretend to sound as a troll, but please accept my minor feedback regarding these events -- which I applaud -- and the political situation in Atys.

One special aspect, regardless of gameplay mechanics, is the official (as in the 4 race leaders of homin nations) status regarding Neutrals/Hominists/Trytonists. It is clear that they exist. The subtle point here in particular, its whether the 4 leaders recognize them or not. Let me explain: it shocks me a bit that Senator Dios, in its speeches, is actually mentioning the word "Neutral" at the same level than Kami/Karavan, apparently opposing one important document (as important as the Declaration of Independance for the yanks ) which clearly states that:

"The New Treaty

We the undersigned being the chief representatives of our races gathered here together, declare that in perpetuity,

I. All Homins of whatever race or religious persuasion owe initial allegiance to their Faith. Two Faiths are recognized;

The Faith of the Kami with Ma-Duk as the Head of the Faith.
The Faith of the Karavan with Jena as the Head of the Faith. "

This document, signed by Emperor Dexton, and unless I am mistaken, clearly states that only two faiths are recognized. the fact that senator Dios mentions Neutrals seems to be incompatible with the treaty that the Emperor signed, and from a higher point of view and OOC, highlights the lack of official status of Neutrals.

I personally consider the role of neutrals as important, and I would truly appreciate if this could be clarified, ideally In Game, in the form of a speech or a series of "live events". I would not want to turn this thread into a flame. Personally either way would be fine, I am not opposed at the idea of officially recognizing the role of neutrals in game (or officially IG *banning* them - it makes an interesting roleplay setting. Trytonists should be like a secret sect, not publically announced)

Yours,

[andypur1]

(slightly offtopic and OOC)

I don't pretend to sound as a troll, but please accept my minor feedback regarding these events -- which I applaud -- and the political situation in Atys.

One special aspect, regardless of gameplay mechanics, is the official (as in the 4 race leaders of homin nations) status regarding Neutrals/Hominists/Trytonists. It is clear that they exist. The subtle point here in particular, its whether the 4 leaders recognize them or not. Let me explain: it shocks me a bit that Senator Dios, in its speeches, is actually mentioning the word "Neutral" at the same level than Kami/Karavan, apparently opposing one important document (as important as the Declaration of Independance for the yanks ) which clearly states that:

"The New Treaty

We the undersigned being the chief representatives of our races gathered here together, declare that in perpetuity,

I. All Homins of whatever race or religious persuasion owe initial allegiance to their Faith. Two Faiths are recognized;

The Faith of the Kami with Ma-Duk as the Head of the Faith.
The Faith of the Karavan with Jena as the Head of the Faith. "

This document, signed by Emperor Dexton, and unless I am mistaken, clearly states that only two faiths are recognized. the fact that senator Dios mentions Neutrals seems to be incompatible with the treaty that the Emperor signed, and from a higher point of view and OOC, highlights the lack of official status of Neutrals.

I personally consider the role of neutrals as important, and I would truly appreciate if this could be clarified, ideally In Game, in the form of a speech or a series of "live events". I would not want to turn this thread into a flame. Personally either way would be fine, I am not opposed at the idea of officially recognizing the role of neutrals in game (or officially IG *banning* them - it makes an interesting roleplay setting. Trytonists should be like a secret sect, not publically announced)

Yours,

But surely those homins who are of neither 'official' faith, could be seen as being non-religious, in which case clause 1 of the agreement would not apply to them. In which case, they owe their allegiance firstly to their nation of choice.

All I think that this announcement brings to the fore, is that our leaders realise that there are homins who follow neither kami nor karavan, but are still included in their thoughts. As it stands though, these homins would be 'faithless' whether they are hominists, trytonists, areligious, can't be bothered, ...

Maybe there will now be 20 atys' years of discussions and committee meetings until a new version of clause I is produced mentioning those homin who have chosen to follow neither religion.

[iphdrunk]

Maybe there will now be 20 atys' years of discussions and committee meetings until a new version of clause I is produced mentioning those homin who have chosen to follow neither religion.

Of course but if this is what Real Life politicians spend hours doing and get paid a gazilion bucks for it, why not?
Guess how many man/month can be spent on nitpicking one-liner clause or a simple clause in a license such as GPL
Don't forget the Karavan clause about PR has been discussed to death, justifying a mention during a live event.

"whatever religious persuasion (...) owe initial allegiance to one of the two official faith" , more or less
seems to imply (grossly) "whatever religious persuasion" -> whatever you may think of religion, and to me, includes non-religious, you should owe allegiance blah blah to Kami or Karavan.

Aaanyway... I think this is a nice excuse for another event and get some IG event concerning Yrkanis Dexton etc so they officially state about Neutrality (whether it is widely accepted, applauded, tolerated, persecuted, banned, forbidden, etc., coverning all the meanings of neutrality). Citizens must question their politicians so they clearly state their position. In any way, my opinion stands, Dios speech seems to no adhere to the treaty, and no one really knows what he means by "Neutrals" (in my view, simply meaning unfactioned players)... but I wish we followed this path in a set of events.

[andypur1]

Of course but if this is what Real Life politicians spend hours doing and get paid a gazilion bucks for it, why not? Guess how many math/month can be spent on a one-liner clause , or a simple clause in a license such as GPL but "whatever religious persuasion (...) owe initial allegiance to one of the two official religions, more or less" seems to imply (grossly) "whatever religious persuasion" -> whatever you may think of religion, you should owe allegiance blah blah to Kami or Karavan.

I. All Homins of whatever race or religious persuasion owe initial allegiance to their Faith. Two Faiths are recognized;

But I read the 'initial allegiance' as meaning faith first, then race, not meaning everyone is either Kami or Karavan at the start. Our esteemed leaders only recognise two official faiths, but I don't think that the wording 'disallows' any other religious alignment; such homins just falling between the cracks in the wording. I do agree that it is a badly worded clause though

Damn, I'm starting to sound like a lawyer

[iphdrunk]

I do agree that it is a badly worded clause though

Hehe, and regardless of the clause, paraphrasing from the speech Dios gave: "welcome my friends, I am gratified to see so many of you from both the Kami, Karavan and Neutral factions" Beeeeeeeeeep!. Neutral faction? A faction? recognized by a Fyros senator, despite the treaty signed by the emperor? who wrote this speech, Dios himself? he was not spanked by Dexton?

[iphdrunk]

But I read the 'initial allegiance' as meaning faith first, then race, not meaning everyone is either Kami or Karavan at the start. Our esteemed leaders only recognise two official faiths, but I don't think that the wording 'disallows' any other religious alignment

Agreed and perfectly valid interpretation. But in my view, this should be clarified. My point goes more in the line that if leaders don't recognize a faction/group/religion/sect, you don't mention it during an official political speech. People whisper.

[danolt]

What a suprise, a Fyros on a quest for individual power, even if the cost is doom for us all. Has the esteemed Dios forsaken her Kami aspirations so soon? What happened to her desires to rid Atys of the Karavan.

"Our future lies with the Kami, living in harmony with our land as the Zorai do. Theirs is a way of peace and preservation,....Others must also be brought to the light and truth of this path.... Together, as one, freed from the watchful eye of the Karavan we can explore our past and our history." I wonder who said that?

I am quite sure her new populist ideals have nothing to do with any desire to garner individual power without regard to cost. After all what could possibly go wrong with attacking the Kitin while forswearing the powers that allowed us to survive their retaliatory strike from the last Fyros blaze that burned up the planet. By all means lets ignore the will of the factions so we can unite behind one Homin and awaken the one group that can surely destroy us all. After all the destruction of everyone is a small price to pay so that the good senator can have the praise of the masses and live the good life.

I am sure the Senator is fully representing the views of every Homin, after all she has done such a great job in expressing her findings for public review. How could anyone possibly question her objectivity, she reviewed them with the Emperor and has a letter what more could the general public possibly need to know?

It is comforting to hear that inspector Useful will be accompanying Dios on this trip. I am sure her schedule is way to busy to be updated on developments of this important case without an audience.

While I am on the subject of the case, why can't the Governor of Trykoth, an 'old friend' of Dios get the extradition of the killer of Trykoth's former Governor, Still Wyler. I am sure no one is protecting any secrets, that Fyros is just being helpful. After all, housing an assassin and investigating the murder of a standing Governor is expensive and if the Fyros volunteer to take control, why not. They are the Trykers closest friend and ally it is not like a Tryker citizen can only earn 1/4 of the rights of a Fyros citizen in Pyr, or is it? Anyway, I am sure the Tryker Deputy drunk is happy to save the dapp, what is Tryker Honor and Justice compared to free drinks.

Pero

[aardnebb]

OOC:

(Response to anissas first post)

I'd respond to this topic fully, but I am currently awaiting a sign from on high.

I've bugged various CSRs, forum reps etc over recent weeks regarding neutral status. The overwhelming response is: Gameforge has only been in control for 3 weeks, a large chunk of which is during the holiday period. As such they have not made any major decisions on direction of the game (or if they have, it hasn't been announced to Marjo OR Soulsnatcher yet). I have been told that ONCE a decision is made, we can expect an update. (This means that "neutral status" has NOT been decided, which I think is pretty unlikely. As such, at the moment NO ONE is "right")

I this is pretty fair and reasonable given the timescales involved.

Until then, I will not take part in speculation, but I will continue lobbying for action and making suggestions as it directly affects my potential enjoyment of the game in future.

But thankyou for an interesting discussion

EDIT: removed part of a sentence that came across more cynical than I meant it to. This is an optimistic post, brought to you by the letters G and F, and the number 3.

EDIT 2: Added OOC tag, my bad, sorry!

[andypur1]

I'd respond to this topic fully, but I am currently awaiting a sign from on high.

I've bugged various CSRs, forum reps etc over recent weeks regarding neutral status. The overwhelming response is: Gameforge has only been in control for 3 weeks, a large chunk of which is during the holiday period. As such they have not made any major decisions on direction of the game (or if they have, it hasn't been announced to Marjo OR Soulsnatcher yet). I have been told that ONCE a decision is made, we can expect an update. (This means that "neutral status" has NOT been decided, which I think is pretty unlikely. As such, at the moment NO ONE is "right")

I this is pretty fair and reasonable given the timescales involved.

Until then, I will not take part in speculation, but I will continue lobbying for action and making suggestions as it directly affects my potential enjoyment of the game in future.

But thankyou for an interesting discussion

EDIT: removed part of a sentence that came across more cynical than I meant it to. This is an optimistic post, brought to you by the letters G and F, and the number 3.

[IC]
Who is this mystical god known as Gameforge, I see two of their minions, Marjo and Soulsnatcher, mentioned but what does this god represent?
[/IC]