Ryzom

The thread that was supposed to be for everyone helping others understand why they chose what they chose has wandered and the Kami and Karavan peeps failed to post in the right thread, instead making their own, so I think this is needed. I've just C&Ped my answer, other 'neuts' can do the same. Probably a good idea for people who are factioned only for the TPs to speak up here too.
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Hopefully Marjo will still be paying attention if it continues calmly A thread lock was the only indication anyone was paying attention.

So I d like you Neutrals to explain to me why you decided to stay Neutral ;

What does it add to your RP stance?

This really combines with your third question so the answers will, in some respects, look similar.

What it adds, or should add, is freedom. A cardinal point of Ryzom's appeal on every level. At least if you believe the blurb

It better reflects the Fyros (and Tryker) spirit than the more extremist view of joining a faction, and thus fits me better. It fits the (lore informed) background and in game history and experience of my character.

That's the short version, but as I say, it combines with your third question.

It's the best stance for a mercenary, even a principled one.

How come you feel like you can only go this way?

The Kami faction isn't played as extremists as much as the Karavan faction but the Kami themselves are somewhat sinister, completely hypocritical and have also completely failed to do anything to stand up for their people. (If they REALLY didn't want those Kara drills on their land you'd think they'd let off a few 6k explosions at OP battles or prevent the OPs being built).

The Karavan faction, as played in game ARE expansionist extremists which is counter to everything my character believes in and I have to interpret and react to the actions of that group IC as well as OOC. In both cases I disapprove though for different reasons.

The Karavan themselves are also no better than the Kami, perhaps even slightly worse. Hidden, unnatural, polluting, sinister and from events and lore they are very much the 'bad guys' from my IC point of view.

Had the lore have any impact on your decision?

Definately.
The lore has been somewhat 'fiddled with' since launch so you can't see everything that once was there, or the meaning of some of it has been subtly altered in places, but the progression of a character in game is organic anyway.

The main points from that lore that informed Jyudas' neutraility have been.

1. The state of the world - we're supposed to be rebuilding.
2. The GOOD lore relations between all the homin leaders.
3. The alliance between Kami, Karavan and Tryton required to see off and survive the Swarming.
4. That the Kitin are the greater enemy.
5. The relatively neutral stance of the Fyros (and Tryker - and their historical alliance).

Combine that with events, ESPECIALLY the Temple War and Jyudas' neutrality is now a pretty permanent fixture, barring some amazing revelation.

As the "Why I Choose..." threads could prove useful lto newer players I'm going to Sticky them. Try and keep the comments and posts in these constructive and at the least non abusive. Go on, I know you can do it.

moyaku wrote:So I d like you Neutrals to explain to me why you decided to stay Neutral ;
- What does it add to your RP stance ?

Zahan initially was a bit of a playboy and a joker, the other Zorai (representing the staid, respectable kami religion) didnt really take that too kindly.

He came to the mainland just in time for the Almati woods section of Episode 2. After seeing the behaviour of certain homins on both sides he decided that extreme faith in any religion obviously makes you a psychotic with no sense of honour. (Please note, this may not be true, but it's certainly how it _looks_ to a newbie playing the game for less than a week with under 300hp getting nuked for 3k damage).

Later interactions with homins on both sides have mellowed that view somewhat, but he still considers any extremist a potential timebomb. On the contrary, Samsara only kill after carefully considering a potential contract for its impact on their personal ethics, or in self defence. Better a logical choice than a raging ball of fanatacism. And if you can make a profit out of it, all the better...

moyaku wrote:- How come you feel like you can only go this way ?

Frankly the Kami and the Karavan have their own agenda. Zahan does not understand it and he doubts any homin does. Chosing someone to support you do not fully understand is gonna get you in trouble sooner or later...

Neither side are interested in the homins that support them, when was the last time you saw Kami OR Karavan guardians defending their followers? They let you bleed and die, only to restore you again as puppets in an endless game of chess.

Mercenaries chose when and where to fight, and ask the important question... "Whats it worth?"

moyaku wrote:- Had the lore have any impact on your decision ?

Yes, I have studied the background of the game intensively. Also, I regard OUR actions as players, the behaviour of guilds and individuals as PART of the living Lore of Atys.

So if I ask what guild you are when you try to hire me, it means I dont know _you_ as an individual well enough to make a decision, so I am gonna see what kinda people you hang out with by choice...

ok, why is Sxarlet neutral?

Sxarlet came to mainland and followed the karavan, as she was impressed by their technology. Rebuilding Atys again, and keeping the Kitin as far away as possible was (and is) more important to her then higher powers.

Then she heard Jena was coming, and all guilds were told to fight for the higher power they believed in. At that meeting, Sxarlet complimented Wyler for his wisdom in leading the lakelands, but criticized him for following Jena and the Karavan blindly.
Then the temple wars started. The so-called higher powers told the homins to kill other homins. Homins that helped Sxarlet to kick the Kitin out of the lakelands, that helped other homins across other lands.
Sxarlet tried to fight for the Karavan, but after a short time, she didnt believe it anymore. The higher powers were like two small kids who were fighting for their newest favourite toy. It was about power and greed.
And those were homin emotions, not something for higher powers.

From then on, Sxarlet believed might be powerful, but they werent gods, and therefore, homins should learn what they can from those powers, but had to act upon themselves to decide the way for the homins.
Sxarlet thinks that last part is a heavy burden, as she doesnt believe in a god anymore that decided for her what is good, and what isnt. She has to do it herself, for herself, but also for her guild and other friends.

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So, to answer Moyaku. The RP and the lore of the game 'made' Sxarlet neutral.
For me as player, the (weak) tryton faction is the most interresting part of the lore. If you read the lore, the different races and factions say different things about the races and the other factions.

Last, being neutral gives Sxarlet the freedom to make up her own choices. Sxarlet is a tryker before anything else. That means Freedom, Equality and Sharing, and she lives up to that as good as she can.

EDIT: (so last was not last ) at this moment, neutrality is the hardest way I think (just an opinion). As player I never really went for the easiest way. For me an MMORPG is the travel of the character, it's not reaching highest level asap. Taking the road less traveled gives it a bit more special feeling.

I'm not, I'm a Kamist. Something that people keep missing out is that not all Neutrals are the same. Kostika is a Kamist to the very depths of her soul. She won't lead her guild into something that they don't want though. She is neutral to the factions because her guild harbors so many opinions. (Believe it or not, Jyudas isn't the only one with an opinion)

So she walks the line to keep her guild safe and thriving. She does what's best for them. So she walks the line and is a neutral kamist.

(Kamist as in follower of Ma-Duk. Not worshiper of the cute furry things)

I can only second Kostika by saying that even though the allegiance of my character Mercellus is neutral, he is a faithfull Jenite.

He is not a Karavaneer though, but he bows to them in respect - they are the emmisaries of Jena afterall. Also being a free-spirited and good natured Tryker he accepts the picture of a loving Jena much easier than joining any legion dedicated to fighting fellow homins.

So why did I choose him to be neutral faction wise?

The reason is part OOC gamemechanics and part IC. I joined Ryzom along with a lot of great RPers from SEED that I wanted to continue playing with. That is, I wanted to be in the same guild as them. I read somewhere that apparently there is some kind of problems creating or being in guilds of a different allegiance than youself. And since there are a some quite dedicated Kamists in the guild it would be impossible for us to play together as a guild if we all choose a faction based on our IC beliefs.

Also gaining a lot of IC friends of Kami faith makes it a little tough for Mercellus to take the final step to become a full fledged Karavaneer. He still thinks the Kamist is walking the wrong path though...

People talk about Guilds and players who "say" they are neutral, but follow a faction for the TPs.
I am the opposite. I support the Karavan, oppose the Kami, fight at OP battles - but not general PvP.... and am factioned Neutral and intend to stay that way.

Right from the beginning I distrusted the Kami.. nasty little shapeshifters, out to trick the gullible and weak of mind (explains why the Fyros follow them ). Even so, the only significance they have is in how they impact on Homins, and the same for the Karavan. Denying our own peoples needs because they arent as mighty as the Powers just doesnt make sense.
However when Factions were brought into play, the heavy-handed and coercive way they went about it offended me. If you sign up with side K, you get these toys - but if you dont, then we will hurt you... I react negatively to that kind of bahaviour. Also, there is a cultural background, that fanaticism of any type, is just wrong.
As an IC rationale, my character was always a diplomat, and you cant be a diplomat if you cant talk to both sides. I beleive Homins need to look after their own interests, because the big K's arent going to, and Homins should not be killing each other at the beck and call of any other species... they should be killing each other for purely internal reasons

So I put up with not having TP access to the regions I need to level in, and yes, it does make me feel "morally superior" (which is perfectly in-character for a Matis ). Refusing to abandon your principles in the face of bribes and threats is grounds for some element of superiority

Jamela came to Verdant Heights to find new hope and rebuild a civilization. She found there a king who by all accounts embodied that purpose; he had united matis and tryker with Still Wyler's support, fostered good relations with the zoraï nation and prohibited the persecution of kamists in his domain. King Yrkanis followed Jena, and Jamela saw that he was a leader setting a great example of tolerance, acceptance and understanding.

Then rumours spread that Jena was coming, with a force of Karavan to take battle to the Kami (not the Kamists, note), and when the Karavan verified the rumour Jamela was swept up with the excitement, thinking momentous things were about to happen and she might be involved. She had long wanted to have the strength to fight the sinister Kami, whose motives she did not understand but found frightening, and who whined all day long about goo yet did nothing. Jamela couldn't fail to notice also, however, her king's shoulders sag as he watched his people rally to join the Karavan against the Kami, and so inescapably against their followers, her friends.

So the Temple Wars began, and Jamela saw that the Karavan, and the Kami, took no part, only goading the homins on to fight with each other. Jena did not turn up. The Karavan did not take the fight to the Kami. Homin was killed by homin, by kitin, by Kami and by Karavan all, and yet at times most were still able to laugh and joke and work side by side, helping each other's cause to provide resources for the monuments the K's wanted to erect.

Temples and Sanctuaries were duly constructed and Jamela looked to the Temple of Light, sure that some enlightenment must be forthcoming, the better to spread the light of Jena and to build a stronger, wiser community. She found a monument with the revered commandments of Jena emblazoned on its surface, ... and a way to recognize and hurt, not to heal, those homins who followed the Kami. Jamela was very sure of Jena, but in her sight the Karavan had done nothing to engender her trust. Yet many of Jamela's friends had taken up with the Karavan, so she followed, but she was now very suspicious of the Karavan and it did not sit well with her. Still Jena did not come, and still the Karavan did nothing, and the Kami did nothing. And in time she noticed that many friends had vanished, many had changed and some treated her differently than before, and she remembered the sagging shoulders of her King.

So before long Jamela returned to the Temple and told the Karavan to shove it! (And felt much better ever since) She has faith in her friends, in her King and in Jena, and that is more than enough.

jamela wrote:Jamela came to Verdant Heights to find new hope and rebuild a civilization. She found there a king who by all accounts embodied that purpose; he had united matis and tryker with Still Wyler's support, fostered good relations with the zoraï nation and prohibited the persecution of kamists in his domain. King Yrkanis followed Jena, and Jamela saw that he was a leader setting a great example of tolerance, acceptance and understanding.

Then rumours spread that Jena was coming, with a force of Karavan to take battle to the Kami (not the Kamists, note), and when the Karavan verified the rumour Jamela was swept up with the excitement, thinking momentous things were about to happen and she might be involved. She had long wanted to have the strength to fight the sinister Kami, whose motives she did not understand but found frightening, and who whined all day long about goo yet did nothing. Jamela couldn't fail to notice also, however, her king's shoulders sag as he watched his people rally to join the Karavan against the Kami, and so inescapably against their followers, her friends.

So the Temple Wars began, and Jamela saw that the Karavan, and the Kami, took no part, only goading the homins on to fight with each other. Jena did not turn up. The Karavan did not take the fight to the Kami. Homin was killed by homin, by kitin, by Kami and by Karavan all, and yet at times most were still able to laugh and joke and work side by side, helping each other's cause to provide resources for the monuments the K's wanted to erect.

Temples and Sanctuaries were duly constructed and Jamela looked to the Temple of Light, sure that some enlightenment must be forthcoming, the better to spread the light of Jena and to build a stronger, wiser community. She found a monument with the revered commandments of Jena emblazoned on its surface, ... and a way to recognize and hurt, not to heal, those homins who followed the Kami. Jamela was very sure of Jena, but in her sight the Karavan had done nothing to engender her trust. Yet many of Jamela's friends had taken up with the Karavan, so she followed, but she was now very suspicious of the Karavan and it did not sit well with her. Still Jena did not come, and still the Karavan did nothing, and the Kami did nothing. And in time she noticed that many friends had vanished, many had changed and some treated her differently than before, and she remembered the sagging shoulders of her King.

So before long Jamela returned to the Temple and told the Karavan to shove it! (And felt much better ever since) She has faith in her friends, in her King and in Jena, and that is more than enough.

Nice post, enjoyed reading the "Why I chose Neutral" thread far more than the faction threads, maybe because its alot more complex a role to undertake in a game which tries to have only two religions, no inbetweens.

So I d like you Neutrals to explain to me why you decided to stay Neutral ;
- What does it add to your RP stance ?
- How come you feel like you can only go this way ?
- Had the lore have any impact on your decision ?

Jeziellia is neutral for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, she has trouble with the idea of killing a homin over ideas. Actions are different. A homin draws a blade against her or those she cares for, and she's there. But she isn't going to kill in the name of the Karavan. (The Kami creep her out due to the instilled prejudices of her people and the fact that she saw their TEETH! ...yeah.) Jeziellia is a Jenite. She does believe in the Goddess Jena and the teachings related. Her main trouble with the Karavan is promoting Homin-on-Homin violence.

Could I "only" go this way? No. Though, I could be misunderstanding your question. If I actively RP'd other characters, I could play a Karavaneer or a Kamist with the same depth and dedication.

The lore very much had an impact. What first instilled doubts about the Karavan in Jeziellia were the Kami purges in the Matisian kingdom. Again, that inherent discomfort with the idea of killing another homin over ideas.

She has a tendency to lean toward supporting the Karavan because they believe in gathering knowledge, whereas the Kami did not present her with that impression on Silan.*

I am NOT basing any of this on interactions with characters. Jeziellia has devout Karavaneer, and devout Kamist friends. Dear friends.

OOC? Who cares what I think OOC. I don't play myself in the game. *winks*

So there you go. She isn't Karavan because she isn't willing to follow their orders and edicts, and doesn't generally enjoy violence against other homins. And she isn't Kami because she has an instilled predisposition to be uncomfortable with them. With a few exceptions, her experiences with the Kami have been neutral at best (ha, no, not meant to be a pun), and rather upsetting at worst. One of the first Kamists she met in character made her cry more than once.

Was there something else you were looking for?

As to game mechanics - I don't mind not getting high level TPs (okay, so it might be nice to be able to get up after that long walk to the Grove of Confusion...). I accept that I just have to move my little Matis booty a little faster and wiser and be more careful. ...that actually applies to political IC stances too. You can't piss off the Karavan and the Kami and hope to get anywhere.

*It was pointed out that this statement (about the Karavan believing in gathering knowledge) was opposite of the lore. The Karavan are very much about studying the Goo and likewise gathering knowledge. I did not say "sharing" knowledge. However, this was my original response:

I didn't say anything opposite of the lore. Yes, they are about limiting Homin knowledge, but a clever homin knows how to pay attention. Plus, it is part of the lore that the Matis civilization more or less is buddy-buddy with the Karavan in hopes that they will one day share this knowledge.

Whether they share it or not, they do gather it, or appear to, and that was my indication and point there.