Ryzom

After using the Ryzom Ring editing module for about five days now or so, I am pretty impressed with it. It is pretty easily accessible for those not used to other content editing software available for other programs (1st person shooters/ NWN ect...). It seems like you can do quite a few different types of things with it easily to allow just about ANYBODY to make original content to share with the Ryzom community.

That being said....

It also is very lacking for those that want to make content that would play like something that isn’t already available in Ryzom already, or any other MMORPG for that matter. I know it has just been released, and as pretty much every other element of Ryzom is always a constant WIP from the developers and will be expanded upon and improved upon MANY times over in the future hopefully, but it also has many limitations as seen in this thread.


http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25793


While I think that the Ryzom Ring is not only a bold pioneering move by Nevrax in the MMORPG genre, and is surely a concept that i would assume that other publishers will implement themselves in the coming years in the MMORPG market, I’d love to see it pushed even farther.

The "Wish List" thread above is a good example of how others in the Ryzom community are aching for more "power" with their newly acquired publishing tool already. I myself would personally LOVE to see some sort of scripting solution become available to publishers, even a toned down version. Also i think if we take a look at another genre that has flourished in part to player run content, first person shooters, we can easily see that is due to players being able to create graphical elements that can be shared to the community also such as player made skins/textures. If you want to post other improvements that you would like to see in ryzom, then please post them in the other thread above started for that purpose and not in this one as it would drive this thread off topic pretty quickly and become redundant.

While i believe that the "scripting/more power for the programmer" type wants and needs of the community will be solved in further patches and updates, user created graphic elements would be much more difficult to implement as the possible problems associated with this content could far outweigh its benefits if not handled properly. I'm sure that most Ryzom subscribers would kill for the chance to make unique skins', animations, and worlds for their avatars to inhabit, and it would be a shame if this were never possible. This however would create many possible problems that would scare away most other developers though (hopefully not Nevrax=) and is a reason why it hasn’t been tried before in any MMORPG.

If there were just a "post anything you want!!" type system in place, we would see anatomically correct fully nude trykers and penis shaped lawn art populating our MMORPG within the first day or so. In a somewhat "mature" acting environment such as Ryzom currently is it would quickly be possible for a few bad seeds to totally ruin the experience for the 95% of us that don’t WANT to see things like this running around Atys. In a post "hot coffee" world the gaming community is already under fire by many parent patrol groups as well as congressmen who are "fighting the good fight" for the youth of America. This is not a firestorm that i think our quiet community of Ryzom wants nor needs by any stretch of the imagination.

That’s only the start of it. Imagine downloading a newly created skin/map/scenario only to find that its packed full of small viruse just WAITING to take a bite out of your hard drive. Maybe even what you thought was some sort of image file or character model really turns out to install spyware or adware on your computer. Now this may not seem very realistic to most of us that know better than to open certain types of files just by looking at them, but what about those less computer savvy players that don’t know any better? These two problems (I’m sure there's more problems, I just couldn’t think of any more in this rant =) alone are enough to insure that in R2's current incarnation and format that we will never be able to have player created graphical content in our game. That is primarily due to that fact that if it was an option for players to upload and share other types of graphics and such, Nevrax would have to devote a lot of resources to scanning or weeding through the stuff to make sure its acceptable or even playable. This in turn means less updates to the core game as well as slowing down any newer content or ideas that they have for the future of Ryzom since manpower would have to be diverted to do this instead of more important things.

This being said, this here is the part of my rant where i actually propose something plausible and possibly useful to make everybody happy, both gamers and Nevrax workers alike. Why not create a "premium" version of the R2 service (as long as there is still a free version)? I personally wouldn’t mind paying an extra (hopefully small) monthly fee to have a stronger version of the R2 editor as well as the ability to create original game artwork and character models/animation if i saw fit. Most people of course would think that this is a HORRIBLE idea, and that they would NEVER pay to be able to do that, and i have one thing to say to that......good! People that don’t pay would still be able to make scenarios using the built in graphics and events in R2 and wouldn’t be effected by the change regardless. I would assume that those willing to pay would be a MUCH smaller group than those that would upload content such as this anyway, and that would make it more manageable by the Ryzom devs to police or "ok" graphics and custom game elements before they go live by having players submitting them to be approved before being playable. People that really want to make heavily modified scenarios will be able to do so, and Nevrax will be financially stronger because of it. This type of system would be abused far less than a free system as paying a monthly fee creates a financial responsibility by the end user that isn’t there in a free version. You want to try uploading that penis lawn art now and risk having both your regular Ryzom account canceled as well as your premium R2 account losing your monthly payed fees for both….go right ahead.

Players could also have the option to view or not view these new elements since they would only be for each of their scenarios and not for the main game. Nevrax could then find elements that they like and either make them more or less accessible to more players as they see fit.

Nevrax could possibly also make this cheaper by charging a fee for "unique" player models as well as scenarios created by the community. Everquest 2 has had similar success with there "Adventure Packs" that they launch every 3 months or so. This has proven that while not all, many players don’t mind paying $2.00 extra for a good adventure or mod that they can use for some time to come.

This may be a completely useless proposal, and most likely i haven’t even began to cover some of the cons' of a system like this, but i for one would love to see R2 evolve into something much more than what it is currently. Please tell me what you think of this kind of idea, or if you would be willing to pay for the service (either to make content or to access it) and how much you would be willing to pay.

I personally wouldn’t mind paying around $5-$10 a month extra to be able to make better content, and would probably pay as much to access other player created content as long as a flat fee would let you access ALL player created content. I personally am not a fan of paying for small extras micro-transactions( if you feel that you would then please say so) but if i could play a flat fee to be able to see what else is out there i would be all for it. Just wanted to see if anyone else would be interested in something like this or have any similar ideas or alternatives, thanks all.

An interesting concept and ideas.

Im sure many wouldnt mind paying, personally though as someone with a very limited rl income, id lose out on this as i can barely afford my monthly subscription
For me that would take away the only place i feel free, as i would once again be limited in my life...

mmmm love the ring, but nah I couldn't handle more than what I currently pay (20 euros, coz Wallie cards come in 10's) and I like that everyone can use it now. I really dislike games that have Premium features, meaning ppl who have less money that others, lose out

for me it's not needed or wanted to be able to design graphics and import, i think, as you pointed out, it has far too many problems and will destroy any continuity with the mainland.

give me a map editor however and i'll be a very happy bunny

What you suggest is simply not possible in a MMO. In a single player or even multiplayer first person shooter it is possible because of the limited number of people playing at the same time. In order to accomplish what you are asking each new animation, skin, 3d model would have to be uploaded with your scenario, then downloaded to EVERY client. The alternative would be to simply have people download the items when they download the scenario. That however also has issues because you are still transferring huge amounts of data from one client to another. Not to mention there aren't going to be many people who will wait 10 or 15 minutes while everything downloads. This doesn't even take into account if 100 people access your scenario at once.

The ring works because all that is being uploaded to the server is a small text file. All of the items in the ring are already on each players computer. The ring simply tells the client how to use those items.

Personally I would just much rather see them develop a ring editor that would work offline. That way I could work on a scenario while having another live.

I would express concerns about custom graphics and unless the custom maps were in such a form that they only made use of 'components supplied by Nevrax' would also give me some concerns too. The overhead on downloading these custom bits to my PC for a scenario I may only play once, if at all (I wouldn't be able to play if I didn't pay the premium, but would have to download for my client to be consistant.) would serve to reduce my gaming enjoyment with no benefit.

I play on Cho, almost exclusively, Cho has suffered much downtime and reboots due to the ring and special 'non standard' features (no trade with other servers). It would be my speculation that allow more inconsistances, especially player made inconsistances, would increase these issues and therefore degrade the enjoyment of many for the benefit of the few.

I am an avid supporter of more 'content' for the game world rather than side features, the ring is great for those with skills in story/scenario development, but does little for players like myself that are game players not game 'developers'.

I may be deemed as selfish, but I subscribe to a game to play it. Hoping that my sub goes to make the company a profit which will allow it to invest in the production of more things to do in the game. I personally would struggle with the idea of paying more for a bigger editor.

Comment to Nevrax - You have bought yourself a breathing space with the introduction of CHO, many old players have started again and are enjoying greatly the early levels and reliving the content in the 50-250 regions, it won't take long for that breathing space to close and we will find ourselves in the same positions we were in before... to quote DT 'Wheres the beef?'. More editing tools which kill time and give no rewards that currently can be gained in game faster and in larger quantities is not going to appease 'game players'.

I would love to have a ring scenario be online wihtout me having to be online, as far as I know I still can't do that. I would pay a small fee for this. I see it as a webspace provider.

And if it is popular I would ask nevrax for a %

edit: A idea just came to me while explaining this to somebody. Nevrax does not develop content verry quickly (or not as quickly as we'd like ) So giving others acces to a part of the developing tools is a way to get some cheap content quickly and to see if there are some talented designers who might be peruaded to make content for SoR or other nevrax products.

borg9 wrote:
I play on Cho, almost exclusively, Cho has suffered much downtime and reboots due to the ring and special 'non standard' features (no trade with other servers). It would be my speculation that allow more inconsistances, especially player made inconsistances, would increase these issues and therefore degrade the enjoyment of many for the benefit of the few.

What makes you think it's the ring that has caused the downtime and reboots?

borg9 wrote:to quote DT 'Wheres the beef?'. More editing tools which kill time and give no rewards that currently can be gained in game faster and in larger quantities is not going to appease 'game players'.

Ummm... Of course I agree with you on this SMALL part

The Ring is nice, though I have had to call for guild help on one of Raynes "goofy assed" (I love the guy's RP and even R2 thinking... but hey, them mobs were tough) scenarios...

The potential of the Ring is vast, should any of the good scene makers pay... ONLY if they want to kill their idea IMHO. The first "sponge Bob" texture/mod made would kill R2 miserably for many of us. I can stand the scenario's whose RP is horrid to "me"... I cannot fathom adding non-Ryzom graphics into any scenario in any fashion. "Where's the Bodoc's" there ?

raynes wrote:What makes you think it's the ring that has caused the downtime and reboots?

Klients....