Ryzom

I hemmed and hawed about posting this as it feels like giving ground to The Usual Suspects but decided to post it anyway.

I've been a bit strung out this last month with a big writing project that's stopped me doing much else and made great demands on my time and also required the consumption of vast quantities of caffeine. Ryzom's been pretty much my only break from working very hard on the new book through that period so I've been shorter of temper than usual.

I'm not apologising for what I've said, just how I've said it.

Believe it or not I am _tired_ of having to say the same thing over and over again but no progress seems to ever get made with some people and they repeat the same assumptions or completely fail to get the non-PvP attitude over and over again and so on.

It feels like a constantly losing battle and I seem to take a great deal more flak than anyone, for speaking up against it, while nobody seems to take any heat for ragging on me. That's wearing.

Other developments in the game have also been dragging on me. The R2 rewards look deeply disappointing now we finally have an idea what they are. I was really hoping that we would get some alternate way to access things that have been made available only through PvP - particularly Crystals - but it seems like its only going to be rewarded for hack and slash, and that any rewards will be non-transferable. Disappointing and doesn't hold out much hope for Kitin nests either.

Marjo says they'll be something extra on this and we don't understand it, but it looks bleak and disappointing, as has been the relative lack of uptake on The Ring. I love it, put a lot of effort into it, even get a few people on it but it seems like people aren't tacking onto it like they should. Unfortunately I suspect that this is, like I worried, because those who would have made the best of it, were driven off by earlier changes. I hope the autoinvite and some other developments change that further down the line.

Then we have the more recent OP battles. It was great to see the Kami actually win one, for once, but that relief at seeing some sort of balance was shortlived as there were sneak attacks on two more Kami outposts, one of which has, or shortly will, fall to the Karavan as we're back to the usual 3/1 odds, even out of usual Karavan hours, along with a return to aggro dragging, spawn pursuit and smack talking in region on both sides. The Kami victory actually gave me hope that PvP could actually be good, clean fun for some people, without all the baggage that's always made me hate it, but it seems not - yet again.

My concern, as always, is for what's best for the game as a whole. What annoys me more than anything is that people don't get that. I have personal preferences which I will express, but ultimately I want there to be room in the game for everyone to get a satisfying experience, without pissing in each other's cornflakes. At the moment we don't have that and I guess I'll hold out hope that the ring rewards and Kitin nest will actually come through, eventually, on that score.

Its disappointing to see, also, that people not only want everything their way, but want to deny others access to the things they have, even by others means. Community is supposed to be better here. It's Ryzom's 'thing' and while its still good it's too easy to look back on things and see what we've lost.

Sorry if that irritates me.

grimjim wrote:I hemmed and hawed about posting this as it feels like giving ground to The Usual Suspects but decided to post it anyway.

I've been a bit strung out this last month with a big writing project that's stopped me doing much else and made great demands on my time and also required the consumption of vast quantities of caffeine. Ryzom's been pretty much my only break from working very hard on the new book through that period so I've been shorter of temper than usual.

I'm not apologising for what I've said, just how I've said it.

Believe it or not I am _tired_ of having to say the same thing over and over again but no progress seems to ever get made with some people and they repeat the same assumptions or completely fail to get the non-PvP attitude over and over again and so on.

It feels like a constantly losing battle and I seem to take a great deal more flak than anyone, for speaking up against it, while nobody seems to take any heat for ragging on me. That's wearing.

Other developments in the game have also been dragging on me. The R2 rewards look deeply disappointing now we finally have an idea what they are. I was really hoping that we would get some alternate way to access things that have been made available only through PvP - particularly Crystals - but it seems like its only going to be rewarded for hack and slash, and that any rewards will be non-transferable. Disappointing and doesn't hold out much hope for Kitin nests either.

Marjo says they'll be something extra on this and we don't understand it, but it looks bleak and disappointing, as has been the relative lack of uptake on The Ring. I love it, put a lot of effort into it, even get a few people on it but it seems like people aren't tacking onto it like they should. Unfortunately I suspect that this is, like I worried, because those who would have made the best of it, were driven off by earlier changes. I hope the autoinvite and some other developments change that further down the line.

Then we have the more recent OP battles. It was great to see the Kami actually win one, for once, but that relief at seeing some sort of balance was shortlived as there were sneak attacks on two more Kami outposts, one of which has, or shortly will, fall to the Karavan as we're back to the usual 3/1 odds, even out of usual Karavan hours, along with a return to aggro dragging, spawn pursuit and smack talking in region on both sides. The Kami victory actually gave me hope that PvP could actually be good, clean fun for some people, without all the baggage that's always made me hate it, but it seems not - yet again.

My concern, as always, is for what's best for the game as a whole. What annoys me more than anything is that people don't get that. I have personal preferences which I will express, but ultimately I want there to be room in the game for everyone to get a satisfying experience, without pissing in each other's cornflakes. At the moment we don't have that and I guess I'll hold out hope that the ring rewards and Kitin nest will actually come through, eventually, on that score.

Its disappointing to see, also, that people not only want everything their way, but want to deny others access to the things they have, even by others means. Community is supposed to be better here. It's Ryzom's 'thing' and while its still good it's too easy to look back on things and see what we've lost.

Sorry if that irritates me.

My suggestion to you is to try looking at things in a different manor. You seem to be insistent that there be no exclusive content or rewards for PvP players. That instead, whatever the PvP players have the non-pvp players must have also. I honestly don't think the majority of players agree with that line of thinking as it takes away from the benefit of taking part in PvP.

I think you would be much better off if you stepped back and came up with some unique ideas for non-pvp players and neutral players.

For example I have yet to see you mention the benefit of being able to go near any tribe camp you want without being attacked. This is a HUGE benefit for neutrals as if they are being attacked by animals they can get guards to help them. So why not expand on that idea.

What if they came up with a system where you could get two tribes at war to become peaceful or even to join forces? What about content that allowed players to change the faction of a tribe?

I really do think you will make more progress that way.

for what concerns me apology accepted, altho i dont see many in ur post , anyway jyu golden advice, try to lay low dont react on everything u dont like. stretch ur opinion once, not 500 times in a thread and certainly dont attack people verbally (wich i admit ur good at, words that is) while even they attack you.

Please don't spoil it Raynes.
Yes, equivalent content or alternate means to access content have been mentioned since the start. You seem to have missed it. The problem still remains though that PvP exclusive content is exclusionary, especially if it is something fundamental to a game mechanic, such as Crystals. The flowers hardly anyone uses and most of the OP mats are just novelties, but things like the crystals - and now additional guild storage - these are problematic when they're linked to a single playstyle with no equivalent or alternate outside of that.

I don't think PvP should, really, have a substansive benefit outside of PvP. That's where things start going wrong. Other people should have access to those things. Let PvP boost PvP or give different 'revenue streams' to access these same things. They needn't be as efficient, as easy, as numerous but they should be there. It doesn't take away from PvP for there to be other ways to get things, just as it doesn't take away from the factions to stop squeezing the neutrals on transportation, it just adds for others and allows them to get equal time and value.

BTW - you can't go near _any_ tribe camp. It's still hit and miss with some of them.

One thing they could do would be to do more of the political stuff, involve players more in how things develop. While IC I was defusing Pero's rabble rousing player involvement in such things would be more satisfying and a good place for neutrals to make a mark.

It'd be great if we could work together to pass a resolution against The Slavers and have them wiped off the server - for example. Or make a decision to expand an outlying town. Direct dev effort with IC political decisions on what technology etc to develop next, and so on.

still replying to it all do ya. hmz on one thing i do agree, there should be ways out of pvp... but why dont u hire a faction to fight over an op for ya? i know it is currently hard to achieve, in the past it could have been done tho.

i mean u dont like pvp wich i respect, but u guys proclaim themselves as mercs who fight for anyone who hires them? well that way you certainly made enemies amongst kamies wich u fought along with at the beginning, its so not nice for me to kill a samsare at on op fight if u feel my pain

I really don't think you needed to apologize. From what I've read from multiple threads, I think it might be time for a break. Close the browser, clear the cache and forget about them. They'll still be here spinning their heals, restless in their pursuit of another to pounce. At least until they get off work and get to play again. Enacting PvP on the forums has it pitfalls. Idle hands et al.

I followed the examples of others and took a break. The game has survived my absense. I've seen people who swore they would never come back and even campaigned for the demise of Ryzom return. I've watched the vocal minority dwindle, stagnate and turn against each other and I still can't bring myself to cancel.

Something about today prompted me to break my silence. Not in support of either "faction" -- maybe I'm just in a trolling kinda mood. Or I'm terribly B@W. Idle hands et al.

-Raku

Hmm... I'm sorry about ya RL Jy, Everyone has them... ATM my RL sucks so much I wish I could upload my mind into the game and say screw it =p

The OP thing, Well there is a reason why alot didn't bother, and I'll send ya a PM on why

First off, Jim. I think it was more than man of you to post this here. There are plenty who will never beleive that they should explain themselves; The ones who should really apologise but are enclosed in their own little world to not realise when the right time to step away from the keyboard may be.

I do agree - to sum extent - with Raku. Its easy to get worked up about things you are passionate about. It's good to see you fighting for your side. It shows that you actually give a crap about a game you love. However somtimes its better to asses the situation and asses yourself - take a step back and try a new, but just as effective approach. You have nothing to lose.

grimjim wrote:... as it feels like giving ground to The Usual Suspects but decided to post it anyway.

You lose no moral (or any other) stance by posting an explaination of your actions. We have all had our 'ripping hair out' moments in our time and the decent among us apologise for our actions. Work can be a mare somtimes and if Ryzom is your primary escape then to log into a game where you continue to be frustrated cant be a great thing. Following up your frustrations on these forums (espcially when you feel like you are in a fight) can show a slightly less positive side to yourself then you would want.

With regards to the Ring and OP's: MMORPG's are made up of decisions. some great. others not so. We just have to trust that every decision made by both our community and the Dev team will pull the game through. That the Dev team will do what is best for this game, that they will listen to us and act accordingly.

Keep fighting for your corner. Never lose sight of what you know to be yours. Remember: We will never be happy in life without obstacles to conquer and goals to achieve.

Best of Luck.

dc77066 wrote:I really don't think you needed to apologize. From what I've read from multiple threads, I think it might be time for a break. Close the browser, clear the cache and forget about them. They'll still be here spinning their heals, restless in their pursuit of another to pounce. At least until they get off work and get to play again. Enacting PvP on the forums has it pitfalls. Idle hands et al.

I followed the examples of others and took a break. The game has survived my absense. I've seen people who swore they would never come back and even campaigned for the demise of Ryzom return. I've watched the vocal minority dwindle, stagnate and turn against each other and I still can't bring myself to cancel.

Something about today prompted me to break my silence. Not in support of either "faction" -- maybe I'm just in a trolling kinda mood. Or I'm terribly B@W. Idle hands et al.

-Raku

good to see you still around hun

GJ,

While an appology is a good first step (it shows you do understand that you can do things that are not quite right), the text itself underscores the basic problem you have here.

-You are not sorry for what you said, only how you said it.

There is a purist part of me that thinks the message and the method should be one, but the realist in me knows that they aren't. Here is the deal, though...it isn't, neccisarily, how you state your ideas that are the problem. Often it is the ideas themselves. I know you keep thinking "if only I could strike the right argument, then everyone would see things my way." It isn't going to happen, man. The central idea, that you are morally supierior to all who disagree with you, is simply flawed, no matter how you dress it up.

-You are tired of saying the same things over and over without people listening.

Again, you are starting out thinking you are right. That if only people weren't so stupid, they would see things your way. Just let it go. There is a good chance that just because people are tired of arguing with you, doesn't mean that they think you are right. There is an even better chance that just because no one has convinced you that you are wrong; it simply means that you won't allow yourself to be convinced.

-You don't think people are using the ring as much as they should.

This judgement on the majority of the player base is another echo of your elitist world-view. We don't like the ring because we are not enlightened. The really good potential creators have already been scared away because of our philistine attidutes. Only GrimJim sees the truth. Wake up, mate! Even if you are right (and we can argue that point) who will ever come around to your way of thinking when it is presented to them like that? When you start out by saying the other guy is wrong and an idiot for thinking that way, the natural reaction is to stop listening and defend thier position (yes, I get that I am doing the same thing here, and that I will probably get the same result. Hope springs eternal, and all that...)

I read through your appology, and the distilled version would be:
"I am sorry I upset some of you, but when you don't listen to me, it makes me mad"

I am not trying to be snarky here. I can tell you are in a tail-spin as far as Ryzom goes. I really think you either need to step away for a bit ( a few months, really) or re-examin your reality filters and come up with some configuration where you are not always right.