Ryzom

Ok here i go as i step into an elusive argument i will try to put across a view that may end the stupidty and arguments.

OP battles can be battled in many ways, ways as which the players of the game seek fitting to that actual OP battle in question.

- You can choice to battle GvG, but that only works if both parties agree, and ban other Guilds helping as alliances. SO BOTH MUST AGREE to this, for it to be GvG.

- It could also be FvF, but then again that is up to the parties that take place and the in game alliances which have been decided due to free will, and free speach.

- It could also be GvF, if say a guild fancied its chances, but the othr party wanted its friends to help (they are more than welcome to do that)

All of the above are abilties of the in game RULES. All abide by the RULES of the mechanics. The difference between each scenario is that of free judgement, free will and basically the way in which those people want to play.

Now if Jydus doesnt want to take part, then let him enjoy what he wants to enjoy, but he must leave the rest to enjoy what they enjoy.

OP are not owned they are OCCUPIED, and free to be attacked by ANY guild with as MANY allies or as FEW allies as they see fit. Same goes for defence.

This sees both paries happy, but no matter what we say and do there will always be the people who moan, and thats mainly because they dont understand enough. If you dont like PvP Jydus then dont get involved with the PvP side of the game. There are plenty of things that are in game that dont require PvP. Missions, rites, digging and crafting. None of them are forced to take part in PvP.

Go to a PvP area, join an OP battle, Tag up, all those are consented PvP, so you are choosing to take part, so dont moan when you do.

tired of seeing OP arguments ....

THEY ARE FINE THE WAY THEY ARE,Mechanic wise... And this is coming from a Kami .I WOULD like to see some added features... Like a way to transfer OPs without battle. Or some new buildings (Even if they are just for show for now) And maybe even have the teleporters in my GH poof me to my OP,That would be cool.

But as it is now, They are fine. the large scale PvP is kinda cool(when people don't argue in region). It not really effecting NON-PvP people... You didn't have OPs before so you didn't lose anything. Everyone knew OPs would be PvP content. We just thought it would be GvG... I like it better as it is... It actually gives Non-PvPrs a chance to own a OP by having there more PvP inclined friends to fight for them.

So... Now that OPs are like what 8-9 months? old can we please stop arguing about them... Give suggestions then shut up... Don't tell another person they are stupid(In any way of wording it) Just because they are fine like it is... Explain your reasons for why you think the suggestion should be implemented and shut up...

danlufan wrote:Ok here i go as i step into an elusive argument i will try to put across a view that may end the stupidty and arguments.

OP battles can be battled in many ways, ways as which the players of the game seek fitting to that actual OP battle in question.

- You can choice to battle GvG, but that only works if both parties agree, and ban other Guilds helping as alliances. SO BOTH MUST AGREE to this, for it to be GvG.

- It could also be FvF, but then again that is up to the parties that take place and the in game alliances which have been decided due to free will, and free speach.

- It could also be GvF, if say a guild fancied its chances, but the othr party wanted its friends to help (they are more than welcome to do that)

All of the above are abilties of the in game RULES. All abide by the RULES of the mechanics. The difference between each scenario is that of free judgement, free will and basically the way in which those people want to play.

This bit i whole-heartedly agree with (as you may have noticed)

However I think directing this thread at an invividual and naming names in general is a bad Idea.. and I can only forsee this thread going badly im afraid , probably ending up with the same fate as my previous thread.

I was seriously dissapointed with the way my previous thread went and even more dissapointed at the goading and smacktalk in region last night.
Quite what people were upset about im not really sure. As stated previusly by solo here, it was an OP attack pure and simple, the attackers attacked in they way that they chose to attack and the defenders defended the way that they chose to defend. Wheres the problem?

Thankfully by the end of the battle people had mostly taken things in the right spirit nad some good fun was had

So please please please guys .. lets not start another flame war eh?

xeraphim wrote:This bit i whole-heartedly agree with (as you may have noticed)

However I think directing this thread at an invividual and naming names in general is a bad Idea.. and I can only forsee this thread going badly im afraid , probably ending up with the same fate as my previous thread.

I was seriously dissapointed with the way my previous thread went and even more dissapointed at the goading and smacktalk in region last night.
Quite what people were upset about im not really sure. As stated previusly by solo here, it was an OP attack pure and simple, the attackers attacked in they way that they chose to attack and the defenders defended the way that they chose to defend. Wheres the problem?

Thankfully by the end of the battle people had mostly taken things in the right spirit nad some good fun was had

So please please please guys .. lets not start another flame war eh?

Didnt want to name names, but he attacked my RL friend.

Thanks for that xera. and Red id love to see Crafters the abilty to craft new buildings at OP's, maybe the diggers could dig the mats for the crafters.

The new buildings could possibly create new mats to be used.

danlufan wrote:Now if Jydus doesnt want to take part, then let him enjoy what he wants to enjoy, but he must leave the rest to enjoy what they enjoy.

I'm not interested in them apart from hiring on in battles.
What I am concerned about is server imbalance and disparity of access to content that is hedged in by this system.

I'm wondering why the Ring rewards aren't activated yet as that'd help take the pressure off.

grimjim wrote:I'm not interested in them apart from hiring on in battles.
What I am concerned about is server imbalance and disparity of access to content that is hedged in by this system.

I'm wondering why the Ring rewards aren't activated yet as that'd help take the pressure off.

Agreed.

Imbalances happen due to FREE will and FREE judgement im afraid. Its just the way the human race is, the mind could never commit to a perfect world (ever watched the matix hehe)

there is plenty of things that are rewarded for other things, such as rites, missions, digging and crafting. A sole pvper wouldnt get these rewards. So those rewards are hedged in for different types of player.

xeraphim wrote:Quite what people were upset about im not really sure. As stated previusly by solo here, it was an OP attack pure and simple, the attackers attacked in they way that they chose to attack and the defenders defended the way that they chose to defend. Wheres the problem?

The problem is, as always, that some people are under the impression that they should be able to tell other people how they should/should not be playing the game.

rundll32 wrote:The problem is, as always, that some people are under the impression that they should be able to tell other people how they should/should not be playing the game.

Well we play to the RULES of the game, the things that make it change are the views and beliefs of people. As in real life, FREE will is what causes war. Take the FREE will away, and that causes war also. Its the way the human race is.

The only bad thing I can see with OP mats/cats being given in another way other then OPs,Is that at this point it would make OPs pointless/useless(ESP the cats I'm afraid) and would cause more imbalance as some people wouldn't worry about them anymore and just get there cats from the Ring.

Why fight over OPs for something you can get easier somewhere else

Not saying this is 100% whats gonna happen, Just a posibility which would suck, atleast to me.

danlufan wrote:Didnt want to name names, but he attacked my RL friend.

My commiserations.
I do apologise for my, clearly, completely unprovoked attack on your poor and undeserving friend.

The thread's locked but the suggestions from many parties are still in there, and they're good ones in many cases but would need a bit of development.

The pertinent points, recapped...

1. Outposts were originally concieved of and sold as something far different. They were supposed to be part of the rebuilding of Atys, a GvG thing where the PvP was, other methods were supposed to include fame, harvesting etc etc. What we have is a pale shadow of what it was supposed to be. It has ended up (mostly) FvF because of player actions and a shift in the Nevrax lore used by players to justify that.

2. There is an undeniable imbalance of power. This has self-corrected a little to the point where the stronger power isn't making progress any longer, but it remains. Most of the proposals are sought as ways to help deal with this.

3. One proposal is to make it GvG. The concern here is that you end up with one uber guild that would own everything. Limit OP ownership to one per guild and you largely fix that. There's still the potential exploits of guild swapping to exploit the situation but a guild-join cooldown period wouldn't be a bad idea (for more than just OP battles come to that!). Another way to fix it would be to only allow so many combatants per battle, say 20, 30 or 40. This would somewhat limit participation to the higher level players and turn the OPs into 'endgame content' but that seems to be largely what they've become anyway. A combination of these measures would seem to be the thing to have.

4. There should be some alternate revenue stream for the OP content, if OPs can't be changed to account for non PvP play. Crystals were supposed to come through R2 but we've not seen what's happening with those yet. The Kitin nest might, hopefully, provide access to special materials from OPs as well as new content in order to redress this balance. Faction honour points could also be restored and given for Kami/Karavan missions - provided the shields are fixed also.

5. If OPs are going to be played out FvF then there needs to be some sort of balancing structure to it. The more outposts one faction holds the weaker their guards should be and the less numerous with the opposite holding true for the weaker faction (perhaps a good use for the Kami and Karavan troopers?). Of course again this would have to be mechanical and the OP war would have to become overtly factional on every server.

Since people seem to take the attitude 'Because the game mechanics allow it, its fine' any solution is going to have to come via mechanics because, as always with this stuff, it only takes one bad apple to ruin the experience of a great many.