Ryzom

I want Southend Dunes Farm to remain a resource for those without the means to own their own ops. I regard there is potential for the op to lose this status if it in the hands of any one guild, the owner might quit game , the guild's time and energy might need to be dedicated to internal issues, guild policies could change, some members could attack ops of either faction making it a legitimate target for counter attack despite the actions of those members would be at variance with policy of the guild itself - are many circumstances which could arise to threaten the status of the op as a community one as well as prevent it from serving its function as a community resource even while it does retain that status.

I believe a new structure is needed to address these issues, and the best I have come up with to date is as follows:

Loose Proposal One:

Roster the op itself on a weekly basis, with each owner donating 1-4 days output to others on the list (number of days depending on size of guild). What I like about this proposal is it gives ppl the chance to be the owners and the givers - to see how ops work, to feel a part of the op owning content, and be relieved of the role of welfare recipient which sits uncomfortably with many of us even if only for a short time.

Are costs - about 15 million for a week's ownership roughly, and practical issues re: thresholds etc, but it might also be alot of fun to have weekly battles against the npcs - or possibly set it up as beat the npcs and get the op for longer - a contest against the npcs to see which group can get the highest threshold - many practicalities to work out, but might be alot of fun to do it this way rather than by the roster the output method.

Loose Proposal Two:

Roster the output, but instead of one poor overworked bedraggled crafter (who needs Ani to dig mats for her so she can recover btw ) meeting with many each week, form a guild of alts of participating members. The leader resets HO and each can withdraw for themselves or themselves and one other - something akin to this where the distribution is handled directly by the participants without any one person or group needing to meet with many persons for direct hand ons or worry about omg I get none this week as my GH bulk was 10k (that happened LOL).

Both these methods would seem to address issues such as transparency and accountability and of great concern to me continuity as there seems far less risk of the op losing its status as a community one when it is managed by the recipients.

I would like ppl's thoughts and suggestions as there may be better ways to address the goals than the two proposals I outlined. I would also like those who regard themselves as likely participants to put forward their names as well.

Finally, while I am pre-empting Eley's proposal, Eley promised to return the op to me at any time I so wished, as I in turn had promised to return it to Mialee should he return to game and want it back. Most happily Mialee has returned to game and it his wish that it be a community op rather than returned to him. I didn't own it personally and in my view neither did nor does Eleytheria own it. We were both caretakers of Mialee's gift to the community.

Eley as well as others are most welcome to put forward different proposals and I would like those within the op have not community to whom the op truly belongs to be those who choose the method we adopt for distributing its output.

Zysha

Well i would like to start with a Thanks to Zysha for proving to me that there are some people in this game on the side of the Kami, that actually give a damn about the others in game.

I would like to also say that I am not in a position to comment at this stage on how the OP should be run if it is to once again become a community OP. As said here and in other threads Eley is the actual owners of the OP now and it is they and they alone that are to decide the outcome in stage one.

Dependant on that decision stage 2 is either :-

1) Eley continuing to DONATE to the better of the Kami guilds that are in the " Have Nots " section as said elswhere on these forums.

** NOTE **
I really take offense to this term by the way, as it is pure and simple stereotyping at its best. People dont stop to think that the " HAVE NOTS" in this game are actually amongst the Highest Level Players around, and the reason they are classed as "HAVE NOTS" is because they CHOOSE not be in a larger guild.

or the other way is :-

2) Is that Eley turn around at say " GO Jump " in which case the
" HAVE NOTS " will hold a meeting and make their own DECISION
about if to take the OP by Force and make it a community OP
once again.

With all that said, The Mystic Knights Of Atys would like to be included in the Co-Op of guilds to Not only access the treasures that an OP brings, but to also pledge to protect it to the best of our abilities so that it remains an OP for the Kami community.

I am told by many and through past experience have found that the Members of the Karavan Alliance are all upstanding Homins and fair to all of their race. I beleive that the Kami have a lot to learn about COMMUNITY GOOD and What it means to be a race on Atys from the karavan.

Please dont FLAME me for my comments as i am Kami and have been since day 1 of this game. But the reason the Karavan have more players as suggested elsewhere in these forums is due to the treatment that they extend to Old and New players alike and the Powerful Players of the Karavan don't have ego's bigger than their charactor in the game.

Thanks For your time.

Registration of interest from Mystic Knights of Atys is noted

I would like to clarify a few things which ur post raises:

Firstly, while I share ur anger at failure of the kami side to look after its own, no discrimination with respect to faction will be made as was done in the past.

I take ur point about the term "have nots" as it classes us as welfare recipients, the down and outers, and grates particularly if a high level player. A better term is needed, just I can't think of one - the outpostless?

I disagree with ur perspective re: Eley owning the op. They do own it with respect to occupying it, and they are of course free to seek to maintain ownership as an individual guild, and are, as are others, encouraged to put forward proposals of their own for how best to run the op as a community one. I do not however regard they own it with respect to it being handed on for benefit of the community - public statements were made at the time of transfer attesting that this was the case, and also with respect to the then guild leader promising to return it to me at any time I so wished.

Eley will make its views known in course. It is up to them to speak for themselves so let's not turn this into a debate as to if they do or don't own it.

I also don't want this to turn into a debate as to if only kami or kami and neutrals or only neutral or only trykers or only auburn haired fyros - tho great choice heh - should benefit. If this is to be a community op it is for the COMMUNITY and that includes each and every one of us - even those strange gangly blue folk.


********************** THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD **********************

is for the outpostless to express interest in participating and to give their views as to how to they would like it to be run. Stick to it plz folks

Zysha

nonde wrote:
Eley will make its views known in course. It is up to them to speak for themselves so let's not turn this into a debate as to if they do or don't own it.

I also don't want this to turn into a debate as to if only kami or kami and neutrals or only neutral or only trykers or only auburn haired fyros - tho great choice heh - should benefit. If this is to be a community op it is for the COMMUNITY and that includes each and every one of us - even those strange gangly blue folk.


********************** THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD **********************

is for the outpostless to express interest in participating and to give their views as to how to they would like it to be run. Stick to it plz folks

Zysha

OK mate :-

1) Known Facts :- Eley have control of the OP atm, Therefore OWN IT

Those who were getting in the past, are no longer getting
from the original deal.

2 ) I do believe i have SUGGESTED as requested that the running of the Community OP is modeled off the karavan Alliance and the karavan way of compasion for their faction members.

3 ) Both Faction's dont need a community OP, as the majority of Karavan players SHARE the treasures of the OP's, and from experience ( Not even being Kara myself ) People need ask karavan players for things and while the answer is not always yes, it is yes more often the Kami responses.

4 ) I have not suggested that decisions be made by such things as Hair colour and Race ( ie Tryker / Matis / Fyros or Zorie ) so cant understand where that comes from personally.

5 )I think that three of the Outposts should be controlled for such a purpose.
1 x Kami / 1 x Neutral / 1 x Karavan Community OP's. This solves many of the issues that i have read about on this forum and many of which you yourself have created.

I dont really care how you would like to run it, this is all hyperthetical until such time as it is DECLAIRED a community OP.

Like i said MKOA is interested in joining into the Co-Op and will play whatever role it has to, so that it is a valued member of the group. Posting to any of these threads until such decisions are made is like putting a beer in front of an alcho and saying leave it alone. LOL IT JUST DONT HAPPEN.

If you dont want everyones opinion then please dont ask them to post in here.

livefire wrote:OK mate :-

1) Known Facts :- Eley have control of the OP atm, Therefore OWN IT
this is all hyperthetical until such time as it is DECLAIRED a community OP.

It was publically declared by Eley that Eley was taking the op with intention to continue distribution to benefit the outpostless community at large. All that is it issue at this point now that guild membership has changed is if this remains the case and should it remain the case by what method and including those of its own devising Eley would like to see distribution managed.

For it to be a community op it needs to be for the whole community. I love ur idea of a shared outpost for each faction, but atm all we have is just this one and to dedicate its resources to only one segment of the community both defeats the purpose of it being for the outpostless community at large which includes neutrals and kara as well as kami and returns it to status of being just another faction based op up for grabs at which point it serves only one of three factions instead of serving some from all.

There does need to be more done by kami for the kami outpostless no question. There are two issues here, what kami need for kami and what the community needs for the community. My reference to trykers and auburn haired fyros was an effort to defuse the potential for this thread to degenerate into a kami-kara debate as did the last one.

The above proposals are premised on Southend Dunes Farm being a community op that serves all factions. Should u or others wish it be only for kami or neutrals or kara plz start a new thread and rally support to your cause as at the end of the day you can seek to take this or any other op to implement your vision.

This thread is for expressing interest in participating in a cooperatively managed faction free outpost and giving suggestions as to the best method for managing it.

Zysha

Well However way this turns out I will do my best to make this outpost useful for the community again.

Whichever guild (or person) decides to take care of fair distribution and agrees upon everything with Zysha I (and many more karas with me) will help uphold this agreement.

The Kara indeed have enough resources and share quite a lot with both neutrals and even kami, so distribution among the kami and neutral guilds is ok with me (this last thing is my personal opinion only).

This said, if you guys in charge of the distribution program ever need meleers/nukers/healers to help attack/defend this Outpost, please send me a tell in game.

komissar wrote:Well However way this turns out I will do my best to make this outpost useful for the community again.

Thanks for your support for Southend Farms Dunes continuing to be a community op Kossimar. If you and others reading this thread know of any outpostless please make them aware of this thread as what is needed at this point is for ppl to put their hands up and say they would like to be included. I would also like suggestions from others such as VVV as to how to achieve the goal of the op remaining a community one into perpetuity which the above 2 proposals were put forward in effort to achieve.

Zysha

After having a guild meeting and subsequent vote, Eleytheria makes the following proposal:

We are a neutral guild and support the idea of a community outpost. We fully intend to honour the agreement of providing elevation crystals and outpost mats to those with no other access to them. We propose to fairly distribute 4 days output per week amongst the community as was suggested to us by Zysha. In keeping with our guild principles, we agree to full disclosure and accountability in the administration of this outpost.

We would invite all parties interested in obtaining a share to post within a general forum thread, in order to begin compiling a new list which shall remain public. Once we have this list, we will be in a better position to decide the fairest way to share the 4 days output amongst these parties.

Thanks for clarifying Eley's position Erimos. I think at this point what is most needed is as u suggest a new thread wherein outpostless can list their names to give an idea of how many participants there will be and revisit the potentially fraught issue of how best to manage the op following that.

I am not opposed to Eley managing it, my goal is to secure the future of Southend Dunes Farm as a community op pure and simple. It is my personal view that this goal is better served if a method wherein the op is successively or alternatively cooperatively held by participants can be devised and found workable than if any one guild, and myself included there, holds the op. Many scenarios are possible tho - methods such as I suggest may be regarded as unworkable, participants may prefer a hand on to direct involvement or there may be so few in need now that the most practicable solution is to implement the Eley proposal - nothing is set in concrete at this stage from my point of view.

A point of tension between myself and Eley would be expected to be that my opening up discussion as to how to best secure the future of Southend Dunes Farm as a community op places in jeopardy Eley's private stake in the op. For that I can't apologize as the op maintaining status as a community op into perpetuity is my overriding concern. I do though apologize for any additional stress this may have caused yourself or guild members and particularly at this time.

While I am committed to acting to secure the op's future, I am not committed to a particular means by which to achieve this. The book is open, and the writing commences with identifying those the op can serve. Once they are identified we can collectively revisit the most suitable means of distribution.

I will start a new thread called: Outpostless wanting a share of Southend Dunes Farm.

Zysha

VeniVidiVici shares your desire for it to remain a well cared for Community OP, Zysha... and support you.