Ryzom

Perhaps the problem with PvP, or rather how people act and react regarding PvP, is that some people take it much too personally. Someone mentioned in another thread that it tears apart friendships. If you can duel a friend in good fun, why can't you fight on the opposite side from them in an outpost or faction battle? Why does it even matter?

Because this should not be player vs. player. It should not be that personal. It should be character vs. character, with no hard feelings felt on the part of the people playing the characters. Maybe this separation isn't distinct enough in the minds of people who don't roleplay, or even in the minds of some who do.

During an outpost battle, I can get mildly annoyed if I keep getting nuked by the same person over and over again or something (*pokes Lexius* ). But after the battle is over, I leave the battle on the battlefield, so to speak. I'll be just as nice and helpful to those I fought against, as I would if we were always on the same side. The only exception to this is if I see an individual or guild consistently using dirty tactics in battles.

Just a thought I've been turning over in my head today...

P.S. Do not turn this thread into another PvP-discussion flamefest. It's not that hard to avoid flaming - just respect the other people posting and above all, be kind.

well said, its certainly how I see things

however much I disliked eating jungle grass last night I didnt take one of them deaths personally. I did notice I seemed to be killing a few players consistantly more than others (mostly as they were at the front and/or seperated from the crowd) but I'm telling you I was selecting anyone that passed my vision and clicking the nuke button.

now if only they made town halls and drills smaller so I didnt keep selecting them instead of players.

I do however have memories of my greatest opponents who managed to floor me numerous time *pokes squires* but I wont hold it against them until the next battle.

battles are made for rivalries and fun, but after the battle I would still hunt with the very people who killed me so many times.

Well I agree, but there a builtin "flaw" in MMOs that blur the difference between character/player

In another game I played life span for a character was short. Permadeath setting and you rerolled a lot. That result was that player and character was more separated and that the characters tend to have more extreme personalities.

The character in a MMO is more valuable, you do all these grinding to get bigger and stronger and become more emotionally attached to the character - because you spent all this time. The time spent makes every attack against your character feel like an attack against you. At least for many players.

I agree with the original poster, and I wish things were like that and for the most part, they are. That said.. it is also an utopic dream. I am glad some op fights like yesterday's one was "with manners" but it is not always the case, and as some other player mentioned a while ago, it only takes one to spoil for the rest.

Also, there are two issues here: one, is being able to fight (pvp) with honoure, with manners, avoid trash-talking, etc. the other, is the separation between player and character, and both are different (one can be a noble pvper and not make that distinction).

For the first: well, when there are things at stake, when one side loses too much, when one feels whatever, when the moon is high and the tide is low, it gets personal, want it or not, and feelings pop, be a character or a player. Maybe not for you, maybe not for some, but for others yes -- why are there arguments regarding mat distribution? why were players angry (e.g. aroung 2005) if someone started digging your supreme nodes? --

And I would as well: imagine "stealing" was an in game skill (why not, it could be reaaaally fun, to enter in players appartments, GH, pickpocket, etc.).... If a "character" happens to rob me pretty often, would I keep on making the difference player/toon? -- oh, he's a nice guy, he's just emptying my GH every week, but that's his character -- it would be hard for me to.

Regarding the separation between player and character, well, everything is fine if everything is beautiful, but when someone "plays" an arrogant, selfish, law-abiding, Jinovitch worshipping, evil character... well, the separation CvP will be harder to swallow by the community (don't take my word for it, it happens. The "mean character" cannot be played easily).

katriell wrote: Because this should not be player vs. player. It should not be that personal. It should be character vs. character, with no hard feelings felt on the part of the people playing the characters. Maybe this separation isn't distinct enough in the minds of people who don't roleplay, or even in the minds of some who do.

I agree with you, that this should not be player versus player, but in my opinion it is exactly that. I prefer to play characters that carry many of my personality traits, as it is much easier for me to immerse into the world. So if my character get told names, I tend to take that personal, too.

On the other hand, if my character has a reason to dislike another character because of something that happend after a pvp conflict, why should I behave as that incident doesn't happen at all? So if a character decides to refuse a ressurection, that isn't neccessarily personal, it could be roleplaying instead.

did i killed u so often Jelathnia?????

lol i didnt saw who i attack or who i killed,heheh was sooooo Lag



Lexius
Mecrhants of Void
(Searching for his Lost Friends Sumsum and Uma)


"""Noobish by Nature"""

lol isn't i weird how you allways seem to find the same people in your target every battle..
Poor ol Saga... every time I pushed space there he was... been like that for all the battles I can remember of late lol.. and Ayur but she sends me nice messages afterwards so thats ok
Seemed i used to have a bit of a head to head with Existenz too but that seems to have died down now.. he hasn't run me through with a pike for ages

I appreciate the great point of this thread and agree in general, but yup there's a couple of "buts" on this one for me too...

...but often it seems that the actions that hurt feelings or anger originate from roleplay, or at least are justified by it. The line between player and character is not clear, and probably can never be. I guess that's why I've never had much favor for the extremist rp profile. It can be poorly received by the player/character on the other side.

...but extremism is clearly the path the two Lords of Atys compel us to follow; I suppose its "character", in rp/rl (who can tell?) though that explains the extent that we choose to obey.

So I guess what one can do (in yer brain) is go into game events with a cool perspective; positively charged to have fun; or don't go in at all. And thankfully, for the most part we do.

For yourself, at least know when to walk away. Just back away from the monitor. If competitive rp isn't your style, at least allow that it may be for others and let them have their game; its part of the culture of Atys.

Keetch

CARA VIA !

Well ...I pretty much agree with the original poster but ... Alot of people will take it personal and we can't really change that ... Espesially When People start to flame ... But I see things atm are getting better (or atleast seems to be) so lets keep the flaming on low like it has been and work on turning it off

And yeah I seem to target the same people alot to ...Jayce ... I target ALOT lol...[edit] and Minou too

Theoretically, I agree with the original poster, that it should be character vs character and not player vs player. It would be better if people would remember that it's not THEM being nuked over and over again, it's their CHARACTER. The players themselves are safe behind a computer screen.

Having said that, I can also see the point that some players have a hard time with that concept, precisely because they've spent so much time with these characters. I've been a fairly avid RPer in RP chat rooms, and one of the most painful events there is a character death, because for the most part, that character is dead, a character that the player has poured a great deal of effort into creating. Most of the RPers I've played with always put a bit of themselves into their characters, and it's really hard to lose a part of yourself.

So, would things be better if people remembered that they the players aren't being endangered during battles? Yes. Is it that easy? No. I believe this may be one of the reasons that so many want nothing to do with PvP, because they know themselves well enough to know that they might not be able to make that emotional separation.

So, for those who DO the PvP, please, remember that it's not YOU that's under attack, but a series of bits and bytes that we call CHARACTERS. If it stresses you out that much, then don't do it. Games are meant to be fun, a relief from stress. And, don't look down on those who don't PvP; they choose to dance to a different tune.
Thank you, and God bless [gets down off of soapbox]