Ryzom

The state of roleplaying in Ryzom

This game is a really good backdrop for roleplaying, yet it's rarely seen (outside of RP guilds). I'd like to know how the community see Ryzom from a RP'ers point of view. Sorry if it sounds harsh, I only mean to open a discussion.

<gaming history>(you can skip this part)
I've enjoyed two online games before Ryzom, Neverwinter Nights (NWN) and WoW. On the NWN server I played powerplaying and using metachannels like /tell was frowned upon. But the server was in US and the timezones really ruined my sleep!

And of course WoW is WoW... but on the Argent Dawn server we had a community of roleplayers and thanks to a few hardworking players there was many storylines going on. On the end of the day roleplay didn't matter in that extremely static MMO, and it felt like putting lipstick on a bulldog.
</gaming history>

The Saga of Ryzom is dynamic, you can choose your own destiny - skills, faction, fighting for power (OP) or using diplomacy, etc. But to me there is a split between roleplayers and (normal) players, unnecessary because we're all on the same server. It's not about talking olde english, but taking part of the world.

1) Roleplaying in Ryzom has (had) a bad reputation. I have read: "They use roleplaying as an excuse to be a**holes". This has usually been the case of Kami/Karavan PK'ing in Prime Roots. If both parties doesn't enjoy the fight it its just griefing, if the griefer shouts "Kaaaami!" it has nothing to do with RP. We're a small enough community to know whether a player is a mob in homin shape or not.

2) Metachannels. I use them, talking in guildchat and sometimes in partychat. But it really makes Atys quiet. When I started playing I was recruited in a tiny guild and after a ffew days found myself the only active member of it - and Yrkanis stable's crowd became a collection of mute mannequins. Being guilded now improves the social aspect of the game, it doesn't have to be like that. Some RP guilds use guildchat so their RP wont be ruined by others - and isolating their RP from others.

3) The Ballistic Mystix site (sorry). Truly impressive and I use it too, it's a great piece of work. But like Thottbot/Allakhazam it takes away exploration for new players. People say "there is still things to discover in Atys" - but that's for highlevels, not for a new character. If it was up to me, I'd put a password on the database and write a few quests to get access to their library. Sort of like the Encyclopedia.
But said that - I understand the reason to collect knowledge in one place like this, and I'm not criticising that.

What do you say, am I all wrong? If not - what can be done?

Well... I don´t realy know how it is on Arispotle or Aniro, but here on Lenaon we have similar "Problems".
But that´s just the logical outcome of ONE Server for all types of players.
You can´t force anyone to RP, as much as I´d love too .

It would surely be better if people used the Around Chat more often. Here they do it and it´s mostly in a friendly semi-RP way, that everybody aknowldeges as such. And it works quite fine.
Idiots using RP as an excuse for grieving, well, it takes all kinds... *sigh*
I´ve seen things such as this even in LARP, so well...

The Ballistic Mystix Site...
Everybody has the right to ignore it. I´ve looked at it, found it pretty cool, linked it, and left it. I know that I´d spoil my own fun in looking for everything I´d want to know there. So I simply don´t look.
Where´s the problem with that?? JUST don´t look, if you don´t want to know. But the "Quests" Idea is pretty cool too

Acridiel of Leanon

Just to explain what I have against the BM maps.

You can ignore them, of course. But without the out-of-character knowledge it provides it would be easier to make player events like treasure hunts or scavenger hunt quests, without risk for cheating.

Edit: and it is really the slightest of problems, this will probably change with R2

cloudy97 wrote:The Ballistic Mystix site (sorry). Truly impressive and I use it too, it's a great piece of work. But like Thottbot/Allakhazam it takes away exploration for new players. People say "there is still things to discover in Atys" - but that's for highlevels, not for a new character. If it was up to me, I'd put a password on the database and write a few quests to get access to their library. Sort of like the Encyclopedia.
But said that - I understand the reason to collect knowledge in one place like this, and I'm not criticising that.

What do you say, am I all wrong? If not - what can be done?

Depends how you use it imo , theres loads of info there that I doubt one person or even a Guild would amass by themselves without devoting most of their time to it -ok for something you are interested in and id advise ppl to explore things for themselfs but for finding out the odd thing or knowing about stuff you dont care to devote alot of valuable game time to its great , it also gives me somewhere to dump the results of my own "quests" (mapping and mission info) , id do those myself regardless but if others choose to use that info great

I think Acridiel hit the nail on the head - just as having an RP-only server *may* bring problems, having mixed servers definitely does. In terms of the RP-only server, I imagine there are quite a few strong RPers who still appreciate a taste of non-RP play, for whatever reason. Likewise but stronger, on the non-RP server there will be lots of people who will never RP - I'm probably one of those people. It's not that I have anything against RP, I just don't do it. It's a casual approach to gaming if you like, but that's the best way for me to enjoy my time Mainly, I don't have the effort or desire to maintain my own sub-story and character and stick to it - on several occassions I've been met with mild RP and gone along with it, but that's my current limit

In terms of people claiming RP for griefing - I think most of us will agree that's quite pitiful, and the people doing it have no imagination anyway, and hence wouldn't know the difference between RP and HP sauce

Metachannels, I feel, are a necessary evil with MMOs. I agree though, that the current theory behind them doesn't really reflect real life - and communication is probably one of a few areas where realism should exist in any game. For example, if you wanted to contact your guild members who were far away, you'd need distance communication - so you'd whip out a mobile phone or something similar. However, people stood close by would still hear your conversation in most situations - and that's where the realism falls down, and to an extent the immersion too.

Sadly, the ultimate solution with communication cannot realistically exist with today's technology - I'm thinking voice chat here, but *real* voice chat. In other words, audio working exactly the same as 'around' chat, producing a hubbub of voices and chatter in an area, with volume affected by distance as appropriate. Trying to include metachannels (for example guildchat) within the theory would be difficult, and would remove any possibility of actually talking in private - which you can't do, because for a million reasons people need to talk privately. This theory is achievable via several techniques for around chat, but that's as far as it goes. And the *real* problems are increased bandwidth, increased server load (the server needs to 'mix' the audio for each possible conversation or 'hotspot' - ouch ) and slightly increased client processing load - on top of an already busy sound system (especially when fighting etc.). It's a dream I'm sure will come true soon, but not just yet(tm)

Info sites/data mining - difficult one Firstly I think we'd all agree, the BM site represents an immense effort in work and a huge devotion to the world of Atys - I'm an ex-web dev myself, so I automatically have softspots for great websites. For the record - BM blows both Allah and Thott into pieces The only comment is that because WoW items/quests are more detailed, those sites appear to house much more detailed and useful information than BM - I have no doubt that BM would easily match Allah and Thott should more info be available.

Anyhow, I think data mining discussions are specific to the game in question. It's my honest feeling that the BM site was created to be an "occasional reference". By that I mean, if you're really stuck with something, or are just interested in a Zone Map or similar, you head there for a quick visit. By contrast, it's my opinion that Allah/Thott were set up purely to feed people "the whole deal" regarding items, quests, instances, bosses etc. In my 9 months of playing WoW, I probably used Thott 10 times - to get a map for a difficult instance, and to check my armour options coming up to level 60. However, some people use it very differently - effectively like a walkthrough - and check every quest, item, and NPC along the way. A lot of people call WoW "easy mode" - I disagree, because I applied my own way of playing, and took say 7 months to hit 60, and quite enjoyed it. If I used Thott the same way as other people use it, I'm sure I could have hit 60 quicker. Thing is, I *chose* not to use those sites - I used to ask the odd question in guildchat and some would answer "go look it up", which annoyed the hell out of me - I didn't want the whole 10 commandments, I just wanted a bit of info to get me started

Crikey I can waffle a lot about very little Bottom line IMO - data mining sites are only bad if you use them to walk you through the game, effectively ruining your own experience. I would wager half of the people complaining "WoW is too quick" were hammering Allah/Thott for all they are worth, and probably posting some of the "hunters are noobs" type comments while they're there Some people enjoy the finding, some people enjoy the playing, some people enjoy both - with that in mind, the BM site get's my vote of "safe"

Good points Ulani, and very difficult ones to judge

A few things:

Most are not comfortable with roleplay as such - being an alternate personality with goals and aim not really in line with there actual nature, and consciously making choices based on these applied valued as opposed to actual real ones. It is abstract and akn to acting. In essence the vast majority will play themselves, and just adapt themself to Atys' environment, the extent of roleplay is really the use and interpretation of lore and background that fits your friends, your upbringing ingame (the lower lvls) and own personality.

RP guilds will tend to keep RP 'inhouse' or among a close circle of friends with whom they're comfortable roleplaying with. There are however many that indulge RP moments even if they would not intentionally do so in 'normal play. I personally don't deliberatly associate with RP guild because i want to RP, i'll just play me as i see it with whomever and be generally consistant on the matter.

As far as metagaming mechanics are concered that all about how you interpret them, the threads on 'telepathy' for example as a means of explaining chat are ways in which player are finding RP rational for game mechanics, similar can be done with other means too. I had a character in a RP guild on a general DAOC server , to justify her(my) extensive knowledge she always referred to her big sisters journals she had 'borrowed' often citing entries of encounters (thus explaining tactics or quest solutions), this became a trait of the character after a short while.

The greatest error that a person desireing to RP is assuming the other players will not. Often other players will happily engage in light RP without even thinking about it, and be also drawn in to heavier RP again if it seems perfectly natural and part of the game. So my general advice would be not to distinguish between RP and non- RP as that really only isolated the two, when the can just mix fairly seamlessly.

cloudy97 wrote:Just to explain what I have against the BM maps.

You can ignore them, of course. But without the out-of-character knowledge it provides it would be easier to make player events like treasure hunts or scavenger hunt quests, without risk for cheating.

I don't think the BM maps (and similar sites) spoil to much, these site just show what is now well known by most of the players.
A newer players isn't even dependant on something like BM maps.
He/she just needs to ask some of the more experienced players (and that would be good rp passing "secret" information from the older to the younger homin ... why reinvent the wheel ).

To the rp issue, I wouldn't say rp has a bad reputation (at least here at Leanon) but not everybody is rp'ing for several reasons.
For example I don't rp very often with my main , because I had to bend it's rp (for gameplay reasons) so often that it eventually broke.
Now I'm using my main for "normal" gameplay and I have some alts for roleplaying.


Carfesch (Leanon)

Thanks all for the great posts.

I don't think there is such a huge difference between roleplayers and gamers in Ryzom since the world is built the way it is. Engaging in PVP-battles (like taking over an outpost or attacking/defending Yrkanis) is just as immersive as having an IC wedding.

When I'm at it, let me add a fourth point to my list:
4) GM events. While they are good to bring people together they aren't very interactive. There has been events that I thought was scripted. I think that's why kitin fight events have such a good name, the players feel included in the event.

4. Trouble seems to me, that they have to script at least some Events to "get on with the Storyline".
If I remember correctly there even was somewehre a statement from Nevrax to just this. Some Events MUST be scripted, because they set other things in motion, that players will eventually be able to influence.
or so I think the general tenor of the statement was...
Wich would only be logical to me, because if truly everything would be left completely up to players to decide.... well....
I think there would be Hell on Atys right now.

CU
Acridiel of Lenaon

acridiel wrote: The Ballistic Mystix Site...
Everybody has the right to ignore it. I´ve looked at it, found it pretty cool, linked it, and left it. I know that I´d spoil my own fun in looking for everything I´d want to know there. So I simply don´t look.
Where´s the problem with that?? JUST don´t look, if you don´t want to know. But the "Quests" Idea is pretty cool too
Acridiel of Leanon

That is exactly where I am. There are times when I want to look something up because I am in a great rush, but let me tell you I choose not to mostly. I have chased a good many mats down without their assistance. I always like saying, look at that, never knew that was there.

Edit: Hell, I spent 2 full days mapping every single mission mat in Fleeting Garden.

In addition, as comprehensive and useful as BM is, I would say they have barely scratched the surface on Atysian knowledge.