Ryzom

Heya,

Ok, i have been playing SoR since april 04, took a break from jan 05 to oktober 05. Now, i had this discussing with a fairly new player about Ranged Fighting. In other words: combat with guns, rifles, etc. In my memory as a Ryzom veteran, Ranged is, and has always been, heavily underpowered. Its expensive and doesnt do much damage. Especially endgame its pretty much not worth the effort. However, Lexxian (Raven on the forum), the player where i had the discussion with, had spoken to several guild leaders, who said ranged wasnt underpowered, just fine as it is.

My question is, have things changed since the few months i left? (I was playing when the Hit Rate got enabled again, so that cant be it) I thought id pretty much knew everything there's to know about Ryzom, but maybe im wrong this time.

Ghuiss has another string to his bow by being a crazy ranged homin also...

biggest change was the reduction of bulk...makes a bit of a difference but not alot for launcher use....

still fighting with range is alot more fun.....less nuking fish in a barrell more dance with horde of bodoc and arma on your tail....

The hit rate stanza's do take alot of sta or hp credit to use which is a bit annoying...cant remember if its affected by armour either....


another change was the enchant on the gun which used to still give you credit for the kill (xp)..but now doesnt...garh! might of been better if they just made enchantments non trade able.....

still ranged type gun shooting is the mainstay of alot of MMORPG's seems a pity that its underplayed in ryzom (read usless)......

Range fighting seems very useful in PvP at the moment, the problems is launcher and autolauncher bulk, the crafting of those 2 which uses A LOT more mats than other ammo, and also Bowrifle Ammo which = Rifle ammo for some reason, uses more mats to craft, gives less ammo with the same stats, and they both can be used in rifle and bowrifle...

jlbloem wrote:Ranged is, and has always been, heavily underpowered. Its expensive and doesnt do much damage. Especially endgame its pretty much not worth the effort. However, Lexxian (Raven on the forum), the player where i had the discussion with, had spoken to several guild leaders, who said ranged wasnt underpowered, just fine as it is.

You are correct, ranged is very expensive and does not do much damage.
"Bullet" damage is just fine, every ranged used knows what i'm talking about.

Knowing a Master Gunman very well, I must say Ranged Rifle usage is fine as it is, just need more ... dedication.
The main point is the speed of the weapon and the chance to hit. As a teammember, a high level ranged fighter to take out the healers from a distance (hitting them causing interrupted casts) is *very* good to have. But the big nono is that a ranged fighter needs to dig his mats and get high in crafting his ammo before anything else.
Making stacks go up to 999 and also applying that to ammo solved one of the bigger problems, mainly reloading all the time.
With the added hp on medium armor and the physical hits from a distance and the ability to run around shooting your target, ranged is a very powerful weapon. This power needs dedication in digging and crafting to be able to be wielded and not everyone wants that, which is just as good. Of all combat skills, ranged takes most time to level which is good too.

So conclusion for me:
A high level ranged fighter with a good ammo/gun/armor/jewel setup is a teammember I highly value in any situation.

I've been playing with range for a while now. I'm not way up there yet (2h at 145 atm) but I've done more than just try it once

Yeah, it's energy intensive. The more attack rate you add, the more (more expensive) attacks you make every minute. Not a huge issue in a party with a decent healer, but something to watch. Then there's the leveling thing. Pistol/rifle are no problem, but try leveling launcher where you have to have a teammate or packer loaded with mats along for the ride. Even then, you're pretty well limited to throwing rounds in till you get a hit, then stopping to conserve ammo. 12 mats per 3 shots, and 15 bulk _per shot_ for launcher ammo=pain in the butt

But with all that said, it can be effective. A good rifleman can hit faster than a 1 hander, and do it from 40 meters, and be running the whole time. Wanna piss off a tank? That'll do it. Launchers can reach in from 60 meters and hit everything in a 10 meter radius, and while the damage isn't equal to a double nuke, it's not insubstantial. Especially if you're hitting casters in light armor.

Something I'd like to see is the ability to put special damage (bleed, ignore armor, slow) on attacks based on ammo type. Not gonna happen, but hey, I can dream, yes? This would add some versatility. IA for shooting at tanks, bleed for casters, and slow for a general purpose "mess with everyone equally". For that matter, I've been shot by bandits, and taken physical damage, and a wee added bit of elemental on top. Adding a small (10%?) elemental kicker to the appropriate weapons would be nice, while Im dreaming.

Realistically, I think it's more of a specialist kick. Not many people are going to be heavy on it, when they could nuke without all the associated effort. And , as it stands, it isn't suitable as a primary fight skill. But for the people who do stick with it, there's that nice *CHOONK*<WHAM!> "surprise, sucker!"

So, yeah, If you want to put the time in, and it's a LOT of time, it works. Just don't expect it to be easy getting there

i love range fighting, once you get the hang of it its really addictive

Thanks for putting this up Toujour, I've been busy with work :/ But good to get the chat started.

This all started because I was hearing two different views from vet players. Now ofcouse people have differing views on things, but as the disscussion got going it seemed more than this. Having had a few chats with guild leaders / high ranking members in Pyr (as RavenZahadoom) it seemed that ranged seems to be used pretty well in PvE and PvP. Now ofcouse it has its down points... you need ammo, you need money. But it has advantages too, you have distance and you can be moving all the time. Speed of attack is comparable to melee and the dmg is slightly lower. To me this does not mean ranged is underpowered in general. It is just different.

But, I'm open to views on this.

Please put your views here, even if your not a ranged fighter (maybe you have been on the end of a good ranged player? or maybe you find them too easy?)

There is also the question of judging them (melee and ranged) in a one on one PvP. I gotta say, this I haven't talked to anyone about yet, but this was not the point I was making. But looking at the roles they play and how effect they can be in that role is a better judge of if one is over powered compared to the other. That said, please put your views how you like. The question of a melee fighter vs a Ranged fighter in a one and one duel is still a interesting one and I would really like to know how this is.

But in general I made views on what I had seen from my own game play and from what was told to me. With that information I can't accept that ranged is underpowered par say.

So the forum is open

Raven™

raven456 wrote:But in general I made views on what I had seen from my own game play and from what was told to me. With that information I can't accept that ranged is underpowered par say.

unortunately, all good points range has, is crushed when you run out of ammo.

other weak points...
even when you hit, you dont do damage and miss xp
range misses "increase damage" stanza
with high "hit rate" stanza", you gonna need personal healer to keep you up (so, you end up w/o "hit rate" or much lower one)
you run out of ammo pretty quick if you try to keep your dps high (to be useful that is .

good points...
you still keep 40m pull range even with heavy armor

misses...
true "head shot"

fun does not neccessary mean useful... and range is fun (shooting part, not digging/crafting .

imo ranged is broken in evrey possible way lol...

the fact that its rarely used makes it good for PvP - but besides that there is nothing there to make it even with everything else...a gunman is like an afflictionist more or less...useless solo great asset in a team...

the fact that u can run when u shoot is not a bonus..simply because if u couldnt u'd be as good as dead...almost every time running is what keeps u alive against mobs

although i'm at a low lvl [80something] compared to the rest of my skills, i can see that its seriously handicapped compared with the rest of the combat skills in the game
...a ranger cant solo all the way to lvl 100 as a primary skill....simply impossible...unless he is the atys marathon winner 9 times in a row..nukers atleast get double spells at lvl 100 and the racial spells at 125...

imo every skill should allow for someone to specialise in it from day 1...
if someone wants to be a rocketeer(<--should be a title lol) he needs to be a better/equal lvl harvester and crafter as well,thats not fair