My E-2 rant (it's a long-un.)

[mrshad]

Let me set some ground rules…

If your sphincters pucker at words like “honor” and “content,” get over yourself. Almost everyone knows what is meant by the terms, if you have a hang up about them, it is your own hang up.

If you have been around these forums much, you have probably read my pointless ranting additions to the gank-kids/grown-ups debate. If you are a ganker, it is probable that I really do hate you, and I wish serious physical injury to you and your pets. You are the very type of player that gives MMOs a bad name.

If you work for Nevrax and are reading the forums, please be sure you have obtained the Nevrax Communal Brain. If Nevrax has lost the Communal Brain, please be aware that a squeek-toy is not an adequate substitute. Did you check under your desk for it? Where were you playing with it last? Did you bring it to the last IRL event, and leave it there?

With that out of the way, I went to the “Old Lands” (AKA ganker’s paradise), and had a good time. No one observed any rules of engagement; we just fought over a parcel of land until we had to go to bed. It was entertaining.

The “Please don’t kill the defenseless harvesters” thing? I understand, they can’t really fight back. It seems like a dirty thing to do. But every war is backed by its manufacturing capabilities. Factories and power plants are legitimate targets in combat. The goal, remember, is to build your temple, and keep the other side from theirs. Targeting harvesters is part of the mission. Should Honor points be rewarded for it? Well, think about it….who is more widely celebrated, the fighter pilot shooting down enemy fighters, or the bomber crew that razes cities? Both actions are necessary, and you could really argue the bombers do more to advance the war effort, but the honor goes to those that out smart an armed combatant. Same logic should apply on Death Isle. But then, as things are, the program simply won’t support identifying between a digger and a fighter.

The “Pulling Kintcher” thing? I think it is a base trick that only week-minded children and really bad players would use. But then, Ma-Duk’s forces are full of them, so we should probably expect it, and hope the GMs can find a way to hurt those who do it.

Why the turn around on the PvP thing? (listen up, ‘cause this is critical) THIS IS AN ENTIRELY CONSENTUAL FORM OF PVP! It isn’t like there are mats here you need in order to progress. You do not have to cross it to get spawn points. There is very little other reason to voluntarily get a mission, talk to the teleport officers and head into the fray than to build a temple, or to stop the other side from building their temple. It is just like walking into the arena, you are not going to accidentally stumble into it more than once.

There isn’t even any new content here. A small parcel of land where you can either dig or fight overpowered kintcher. That sounds just like the PR, doesn’t it? What exactly do we see new here? To add to that, the original game is still intact. You can still grind until you pass out. No one will bother you. In fact, the PR is probably safer now than it has ever been. Go and get that here-to-fore restricted content!

To all of you good people trying to walk the neutral path…stop crying.
We have known for a long time that content for the truly neutral would be limited.
Perhaps non-existent. It did not take a crystal ball, just a knowledge of how things actually work. You will never read a book titled “The Great Neutral Countries of WWII.” There weren’t any. If you can see the evil of the Kami hosts and not be filled with a desire to oppose them, then I can’t say I have much sympathy for your cries for content.

There were certainly things I did not like. The 10 year old trash talk. I can’t really be disappointed by the Kami death cult, after all, I expect such things from them; but even though there was less chat stupidity from the Karavan side, it was still there. Seriously now…grow up.

And the magnitude of the pre-patch idiocy. Desert forage for a communal dig site? WTH were you thinking, guys? Xavier…Lawrence…Jessica…if one of you have found the Communal Brain, would you mind terribly posting whatever justification you have for that idea? I will accept “we couldn’t find the brain.”

Melee fighters, despite the new resistances, continue to be pointless in PvP. The main problem, ironically, seems to be related to the heal nerf. Dropped the brain on that one, didn’t ya, guys? With the nukers and healers arrayed at 50 meters, a daring pike man would be torn apart once he hit the enemy lines. The cost for a double heal means that the range of the spell isn’t great enough to heal the fighter, and the reduced power means that one spell alone won’t do it. Combined with the difficulty of seeing an allied corpse on the other side of the field, well, you can see where it doesn’t really work.

And why, oh why, do we not get honor points for killing kitin (still have the Communal Brain handy)? They are part of the threat, right? If they gave honor points, you could probably increase the spawn rate again. The Kintcher are far more dangerous than any player is, they should be worth more honor points if we get rid of them.

The biggest complaint I have, and I think many have, is the demonstrated lack on the part of Nevrax to come any where near understanding what the playerbase wants. WE DID NOT WANT GANKFEST:ATYS! We did not want an isle of PvP. Most of us wanted cooperative, PvE events utilizing the famed RAID engine. Could we still have been racing against Kami Heretics to build an apparently pointless temple? Sure!

Would that have been fun? Probably.

Would it have torn apart the community the way SURVIVOR: ATYS has? I really doubt it.

So (you still have the brain, right) as you count the discontinued subs through the next couple weeks, keep that in mind. There was a small group that wanted wonton slaughter, but most of us wanted (and still want) frequently updated team-based PvE action.

If you won’t give it to us, and soon, I am pretty certain another game will.

[grimjim]

Why the turn around on the PvP thing? (listen up, ‘cause this is critical) THIS IS AN ENTIRELY CONSENTUAL FORM OF PVP! It isn’t like there are mats here you need in order to progress. You do not have to cross it to get spawn points. There is very little other reason to voluntarily get a mission, talk to the teleport officers and head into the fray than to build a temple, or to stop the other side from building their temple. It is just like walking into the arena, you are not going to accidentally stumble into it more than once.

In general I agree with this post, however, it is NOT consensual because *drumroll* it is directly linked to content and there is no, effective, way to contribute without getting entangled in it. Leaving it alone and ignoring it is to cut oneself off from story and content in the form of rewards and forwarding the plot. It is unfair in the extreme to expect people to miss out, though a very few have either left or refused to interact with it entirely. There needs to be a spread of ways to contribute, including those that don't include PvP. These can be weaker and less effective, but they should still be included.

You will never read a book titled “The Great Neutral Countries of WWII.” There weren’t any. If you can see the evil of the Kami hosts and not be filled with a desire to oppose them, then I can’t say I have much sympathy for your cries for content.

Switzerland, Sweden, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, just for starters.

There was also a very interesting espionage war taking place in the neutral (and non beligerant) nations during WWII. They traded with both sides to an extent, helped provide humanitarian treatment for those held prisoner and numerous other things.

And there are many books about the role of the neutral nations.

Melee fighters, despite the new resistances, continue to be pointless in PvP. The main problem, ironically, seems to be related to the heal nerf. Dropped the brain on that one, didn’t ya, guys? With the nukers and healers arrayed at 50 meters, a daring pike man would be torn apart once he hit the enemy lines. The cost for a double heal means that the range of the spell isn’t great enough to heal the fighter, and the reduced power means that one spell alone won’t do it. Combined with the difficulty of seeing an allied corpse on the other side of the field, well, you can see where it doesn’t really work.

I agree, a meleer's life is not an easy one still, however the heal nerf is the only thing that gives us a real chance to knock down any nukers at all in the first place, so I disagree there. Something still needs to be done though. Perhaps make anti-magic aura available as a melee stanza?

And why, oh why, do we not get honor points for killing kitin (still have the Communal Brain handy)? They are part of the threat, right? If they gave honor points, you could probably increase the spawn rate again. The Kintcher are far more dangerous than any player is, they should be worth more honor points if we get rid of them.

Amen, the guards actually doing their job don't get rewarded. Bad.

[roninpvp]

Why the turn around on the PvP thing? (listen up, ‘cause this is critical) THIS IS AN ENTIRELY CONSENTUAL FORM OF PVP! It isn’t like there are mats here you need in order to progress. You do not have to cross it to get spawn points. There is very little other reason to voluntarily get a mission, talk to the teleport officers and head into the fray than to build a temple, or to stop the other side from building their temple. It is just like walking into the arena, you are not going to accidentally stumble into it more than once.

Question: How would a pure harvester participate in this episode 2 (EP2). Sure you say its consentual cause its obviously a chore to get to the place. But why should this player be excluded from getting "honor" points. Without honor points I'm pretty sure players will be left out of some major content coming up. So its either be forced to dig in gankers paradise as you state and I completely agree or be left out of the content.

Forget the building the towers and pleasing your faction. The honor point thing come on what if its needed for something important? Makes me uncomfortable sitting here with my measly amount of "honor" points knowing I most likely am gonna get screwed again when they are usuable for soemthing and I dont have enough.

Edit: Hehe didnt type fast enough did I

[mrshad]

Question: How would a pure harvester participate in this episode 2 (EP2). Sure you say its consentual cause its obviously a chore to get to the place. But why should this player be excluded from getting "honor" points. Without honor points I'm pretty sure players will be left out of some major content coming up. So its either be forced to dig in gankers paradise as you state and I completely agree or be left out of the content.

Forget the building the towers and pleasing your faction. The honor point thing come on what if its needed for something important? Makes me uncomfortable sitting here with my measly amount of "honor" points knowing I most likely am gonna get screwed again when they are usuable for soemthing and I dont have enough.

Edit: Hehe didnt type fast enough did I

You have a point, there.
If the honor points are actually useful, then yeah, there is some content being excluded to a group of players by the mandatory PvP.

If the honor points are only going to be used for a place on the wall, or redemmed for third rate equipment at the end of the event (now why does *that* sound familiar?) What are you really missing?

Switzerland, Sweden, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, just for starters.

I think we can debate the contiribution of the neutral countries.
But, honestly..."Great"? in WWII? Compared to the Allied and Axis efforts...oh I think not.

Anyway, tangent to the point.

[roninpvp]

You have a point, there.
If the honor points are actually useful, then yeah, there is some content being excluded to a group of players by the mandatory PvP.

If the honor points are only going to be used for a place on the wall, or redemmed for third rate equipment at the end of the event (now why does *that* sound familiar?) What are you really missing?



I think we can debate the contiribution of the neutral countries.
But, honestly..."Great"? in WWII? Compared to the Allied and Axis efforts...oh I think not.

Anyway, tangent to the point.

Atually Switzerland was pivotal in helping the Nazi's Fund their war efforts. If it wasn't for their neutraility then ironically WW II could have been a lot shorter. Or at least thats what I learned on the History Channel as I harvest

[oauitam]

Roninpvp explained about the honour points.

The points of honour will be used for the end of Episode 2 to buy the rewards.

As for the rehashed, "Don't like it? Don't go there!";

...the original game is still intact. You can still grind until you pass out. No one will bother you.

Woohoo!

Finally Episode 2 is here!

Now I can... err... carry on what I was doing before as though there was no Episode 2! At last!

[michielb]

Roninpvp explained about the honour points.



As for the rehashed, "Don't like it? Don't go there!";
Woohoo!

Yeah those who don't like PvP seem to be getting a lot of that lately

Finally Episode 2 is here!

Now I can... err... carry on what I was doing before as though there was no Episode 2! At last!

Would if I could But I've been waiting for over a year now for something new and shiny only to find out: I can't have it....

[iwojimmy]

It seems the harvesting section of the new missions is only there to entice bait for the gankers.
They wouldnt be having half as much fun if it was only prepared and equivalent opponents.

becoming more bitter and disappointed every day.

[grimjim]

It seems the harvesting section of the new missions is only there to entice bait for the gankers.
They wouldnt be having half as much fun if it was only prepared and equivalent opponents.

becoming more bitter and disappointed every day.

That might be fairly fixable if fame awards were only awarded based on melee/magic level rather than any level...

Or at least it would contribute to a solution.

Well, apart from those who just get a kick out of killing and don't so much care about the 'honour' part.

[blaah]

Would if I could But I've been waiting for over a year now for something new and shiny only to find out: I can't have it....

mmmm... new and shiney...
http://www.prodlem.com/lem.php?page=pictures&menu=38