Ryzom

(i am posting this here, cause i think it much better fits in here then in general)

Dear people at Nevrax,

i would like to write this open letter because i am getting
more and more concerned about the latest development of story
and lore in the mmorpg game Saga of Ryzom.

When i read yesterday the latest news for the Kami followers
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18696
i had to read there that Kamis tell their followers to attack
the harvesters of the opposite faction.

This is quite shocking !! Kami tell their followers to kill
others ?

Probably you dont know, but Kami do exist outside of your game.
Simple said the Kamis are spirits in a real existing religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami

While the term "Kami" does only exist in japanese shintoism, the
same spirits are honored in many other religions.

The native church of America has been accepted by the US government
as a true religion. http://www.nativeamericanchurch.com

I think you should overwork you lore about Kami. You should
stop name them Kami and you should not describe them as spirtits
of nature. Or you should stop to paint them as violent burlesque.

Why ? Because you are offending the religion of many
peoples if you show them as entities who tell their people to
kill people of other beliefs. The truth is that especially the
shintoism and all other religions based on nature allways
accepted other beliefs in history. They are not like Muslim
or Christians. Nature based religions are open minded and only
looking for truth, balance and harmony.

People who belief in nature spirits have very, very, very
much endurance. Nobody called for war when they where burned
as witches. Native americans never complained about the religions
of the white men.

So please stop this progression as it happenes at the moment.

After considering all options of agreeing, disagreeing and going off topic, Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett could best be used to describe my point of view.

In the H2G2 the population of the galaxy is deducted to zero. Simply because in an infinite universe with not every planet inhabited, these finite numer of planets would be devided by infinite space coming to, indeed, zero. So all life must be a dream.

In interviews Terry is often asked how and where he gets his ideas, because interviewers have troubles grasping creativity (I think). He answers that most things he describes as already thought up by other people.
The Discworld (his main novel series) is about a flat, circular world that is carried through space on the back of 4 elephants, who walk circles on the great turtle A'Tuin who swims the galaxy. The concept of the turtle carried world is thought up by the native autralian people.

Now why all this fluffy information:
No matter what it is called, no matter how it is acting, somewhere, someone will have thought of it already and it will act differently.

No matter how much I respect you and your views, I would like to point out something the Discworld priests (and Roman kinda as well) belief about blasphemy. They dont punish people who insult their gods, because if it is bad enough, the gods will take care of it themselves.
If you belief in the spirits, you could belief they can take care of this.

micrix wrote:(i am posting this here, cause i think it much better fits in here then in general)

Dear people at Nevrax,

i would like to write this open letter because i am getting
more and more concerned about the latest development of story
and lore in the mmorpg game Saga of Ryzom.

When i read yesterday the latest news for the Kami followers
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18696
i had to read there that Kamis tell their followers to attack
the harvesters of the opposite faction.

Not entirely true - The kami told their followers to STOP the temples of Jena being built.

This can be done in a number of ways, but none of which were mentioned.

micrix wrote: This is quite shocking !! Kami tell their followers to kill
others ?

About as shocking as seeing the Karavan with slavers?

micrix wrote: Probably you dont know, but Kami do exist outside of your game.
Simple said the Kamis are spirits in a real existing religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami

Kami means "spirit" in Japanese. You can, arguably, interchange these words.

While Wikipedia is a great resource, it is not always correct.

micrix wrote:While the term "Kami" does only exist in japanese shintoism, the same spirits are honored in many other religions.

The native church of America has been accepted by the US government
as a true religion. http://www.nativeamericanchurch.com

I think you should overwork you lore about Kami. You should
stop name them Kami and you should not describe them as spirtits
of nature. Or you should stop to paint them as violent burlesque.

Why ? Because you are offending the religion of many
peoples if you show them as entities who tell their people to
kill people of other beliefs. The truth is that especially the
shintoism and all other religions based on nature allways
accepted other beliefs in history. They are not like Muslim
or Christians. Nature based religions are open minded and only
looking for truth, balance and harmony.

Show me someone who is offended my the use of the word kami, in this context.

Just because you say people can be offended does not mean that people will be.

micrix wrote: People who belief in nature spirits have very, very, very
much endurance. Nobody called for war when they where burned
as witches. Native americans never complained about the religions
of the white men.

So please stop this progression as it happenes at the moment.

This progression of events was there when you joined the game. Why do you want them stopped now?

Because the possibility is there that someone will come along and kill you while you are harvesting for materials to build Jena's temples?

I believe this open letter to be just a way to attack [Sorry, I couldn't find a better word and "attack" is rather strong- edit] the pvp route that this game has been taking - and using very little compelling evidence for much of what has been said. While it is clear that there are strong views on the pvp issue, this letter starts with a falsehood (Kami telling players to kill) and continues through falsehoods until a demand is reached.

This is a fantasy setting and I really don't think it should be mixed up with Real Life religion, cultures and races, it would just limit the freedom in the game. Unaware as I was/am about Shintoism it's just a word for me, everything else would be too messy.

It is impossible to keep from offending individuals who compare fiction to reality. I say stick with whatever plans are in place and let the group decide. If the masses do not like the event Nevrax most likly will not do another similar event in the future but its a little late to make changes cause a couple people are offended.

I think that using the word 'kami' is no different than using the word 'gods'. If you are worried about this linkage, why not worry about using Italian-sounding or Irish-sounding names linked with Matis or Tryker qualities? I find it hard to believe that this is a serious concern for you, and not just a bizarre ploy to halt Nevrax's PvP planning. We have a Japanese player or two, why not ask them?

micrix wrote:Probably you dont know, but Kami do exist outside of your game.

They probly do know the meaning of the words used in the game

And why wouldn't there be evil Kami?

Well if we can take offence at Kami maybe we can take offence at worshipping Ma-Duk, which sounds very similar to Marduk; part of the Assyrio-Babylonian pantheon. Is Neverax making a religeous statement on pagan worship? Don't think so man!

Anyone know of any other similar names in Ryzom that exist IRL? Just for laughs that is.

akicks wrote:Not entirely true - The kami told their followers to STOP the temples of Jena being built.

This can be done in a number of ways, but none of which were mentioned.

Kamis say that this building work must not be allowed to go ahead. Homins are urged to attack the harvest locations and the building sites of these false edifices and to disrupt the work of the evil Karavan.

"attack the harvest locations"... who is in harvest location if not harvesters
... and they aparently calls to kill crafters too.

No matter how much I respect you and your views, I would like to point out something the Discworld priests (and Roman kinda as well) belief about blasphemy.

I dont know something like blasphemy, but i do know respect for others beliefs.
Blasphemy doesnt exist in the world of nature. This is a term in religions who are jealous of other religions.

This is a fantasy setting and I really don't think it should be mixed up with Real Life religion

No problem with that. Just rename Kami to Obomollos and change lore to say the are born on a distant planet called HB34-beta. Then everything is fine with me.

Lets asume you are an active christian and there is a NPC ingame called Jesus. And this NPC is propagating kill, murder, rape and cannibalism in the name of god. Would you be happy ? Could you continue playing ?

This is what i exactly do feel when i read that Kami order to kill.

This progression of events was there when you joined the game. Why do you want them stopped now?

Not really, i am around a little longer. Why did the Kami have to order killing ? Why not just ordering a temple ? I do not need the Karavan to be the bad guys but i also do not need a real existing religion discriminated. Just a little bit of equal and balanced formulation would have helped a lot. Words are for free, one just have to try.