Ryzom

Hey hey guys.....I know I'm not the only one that has this problem....

I head over to dig some mats in GoC....and the generally safe (minus Zatchel of course) spot is always at near nothing or ZERO Kami Tolerance. So I head over to another spot I know....and dodge cuttler (stupid arana dragging agro.....someone BAN those guys!)

So I do some scouting, and can't really find another acceptable spot to dig.

So instead of whining to the devs about how much it sucks....I ask the homins of Atys, what can we do to make it easier for all of us?

I have a few suggestions, for devs as well as us to help.


First, I beg of you, if you're not actively getting help, and you're not anywhere near the q reqirement for the previous land (eg digging q90 in a q250 zone) PLEASE PLEASE use the other areas! Everyone I say this to is like....my 3 bags didn't do anything to the KT....but every bit helps. If I came with a CPer to your main land or the low level spot, would you like it? For the devs, I reccommend setting a minimum quality req for the 250 zones that would be resonable. I know most dont really like digging, and we can all use all the help we can get, but just because you're too lazy to dig your own levels and want help from level 50-250 by having someone dig your sources for extra xp doesn't mean you can camp the q250 regions when you're not getting help. Or, heaven forbid, dig some levels on your own?


For the devs, I reccommend one of several different ideas. Since we have a split server (euro/american), have a split Kami Tolerance to make up for the time differences. On the other servers, I assume most sleep at generally the same time, so the KT has more time to regenerate naturally. On this server, there's always a crowd digging, so it never has time to regen! I was told today that the KT was peachy 'in the mornings' however, I can't dig in the mornings, and I know that I'm not the only one. Also.....maybe bump the max KT up a little as the zones go up in level? You can naturally pull more mats with higher quality stanzas. Maybe it does that already, but another boost wouldn't hurt at all. Even if you lowered it in the lower zones to make it even.

Finally, this is a message to the devs. If we do our part by making generally level-headed suggestions and make an effort not to power-level the life outta the KT, is it possible for a little help here?

Homins.....this is all I could think of, and I'm sure this has been hashed out over and over again, but if we keep it fresh in everyone's mind.....things are more likely to change! Keep your own suggestions coming in as well!

I don't agree with the level limit (I still have bad memories from when I prospected my first supreme spot in PR and couldn't dig it, cause I did't have a stanza that was within 50 levels of the area ). If I want to map a higher area for the future and happen to find an interesting mat I'm sure I'd want to dig a few pieces of it.

The idea to promote digging in the appropriate area is a good one. I'd say you should get a small xp bonus when you dig in the correct area -- just a small encouragement, nothing ubher. Would help to populate some of the currently abandoned areas like WoM, Mainden Grove etc.

The "split KT" idea wouldn't work imho. Just resetting it at, say, midnight isn't going to work. Or different KT level for each spot depending on if a US/EU subscriber digged it? Nah, too much hassle in coding and it sounds... weird. So 'Nay' on this proposal.

[edit:]

If the 'max mats / area' or 'KT regen rate' needs tweaking, I'd leave to the devs. They surely have some statistics and I remember from some past patchnotes (post-merge) that something with how KT works was changed to help.

Maybe the q250 areas could do with another boost because that's the last stage so it's logical that dedicated diggers will have the biggest concentration in those areas (at least until they reach lvl250).

I agree totally on people foraging i their level bracket. Too often you see low level diggers in areas like Dyron because it's simpler than finding spots in say, Of's Oasis. This bring the KT down, fast. If people find other spots and forage in their level area they'll find a better time of it.

I don't agree with Holina about your suggestion of the split KT. If we promote the above to the lower level foragers in our guilds, then there won't be a need for this anyhow.

Yeah I think limiting the low q levelers to other areas is a goodish Idea.. I know I get annoyed when q50 diggers are up in the GoC lol.

On the other hand it would be tricky to impliment.

I guess we'd have to go by our level stats, not our digging skills.. so that it's dependant on the land we're digging. Otherwise it would be like 'oh your trying to dig 150 in PR but with your forest 245 skills so we can't let you, move to a 250 area.' Wouldn't work so well.

Then you've got CPers.. they'd need some kinda hole in the system to let them careplan in all level regions.

And also you have places like Nexus.. where you can get nice Sup mats but only up to q200... are 200+ diggings not going to be allowed down there..


While I really do wish we could do something like this, it looks to bring up alotta problems.

*feels Lillaryn's pain*

kostika wrote:I agree totally on people foraging i their level bracket. Too often you see low level diggers in areas like Dyron because it's simpler than finding spots in say, Of's Oasis. This bring the KT down, fast. If people find other spots and forage in their level area they'll find a better time of it.

I agree that, in principle, everyone should dig in an area matching their foraging level. However, just sticking to that rule would not be fair in all circumstances in my opinion, there are some more things to consider:

For one thing, remember how hard it is to find the sources you want as a level 50 forager. If the lvl 50 forager goes to an area like Dyron, there's likely to be plenty of highlevel foragers there prospecting with 40 meter range and 120 degree angle, popping up sources all over, thus making it easier for him to find the sources he needs. In areas like Oflovak's Oasis, he'd have to find the sources for himself with his 5 meter range prospecting. So if you as level 150+ forager don't want someone digging q60 mats in your foraging area, don't just tell him to shoo, show him a good foraging area appropriate to his level and help him find the materials he needs there.

Another thing is that some areas are just a lot harder to forage in then others. Oflovak's Oasis is actually still a pretty easy foraging area, with no predators on the material deposits and the teleporter, the lake and the tribe camp all close together. But once you get to q110 desert you have to move to Frahar Towers or Sawdust Mines. I've tried those areas, and found no safe foraging fields within fair distance of both a teleporter and a tribe camp. Whereas the level 100 forager skipping those areas and moving right to Thesos can dig on a safe field just a hundred meter from town guards and merchants. Forcing the level 100 forager to forage in a more dangerous area doesn't seem fair to me. The level 150 desert forager could also find appropriate mats for his level in Outlaw Canyon or Hidden Source, but instead of going to those more dangerous areas himself he forces the lower level forager to go to more dangerous areas so he can keep the safe spot at Thesos for himself?
Same story applies to the safe 150-200 area just outside of Min-Cho compared to foraging in Maiden Grove or Haven of Purity. There's plenty of other places to dig q150-200 jungle mats, why should the below 150 foragers be forced to dig in more dangerous areas while the 150 plus foragers get a nice safe spot close to a town?

Sometimes specific mats are more easier to find in higher level areas. If I want to make a set of light armor with +2 dodge on it, I need shu fiber. In GoC I can forage that right outside the Kami Altar, in Upper Bog it's in some faraway corner under all kinds of nasty creatures.

And then lastly there's all the teleporters that aren't working. The 150-200 deposits in Upper Bog you can teleport to, but if you want to forage 100-150 forest mats you have to walk all the way to Knoll of Dissent. There's perfectly good foraging spots there around the First Deserter camp, which I only rarely used because you had to walk all the way there. If the Karavan altar nearby would've been working I would've used it all the time. Again, it doesn't seem fair to force the lower level forager to use a material deposit that's miles from any teleporter, so you can keep the one close to the teleporter to yourself.

(That's also a hint to the devs to finish the rites that give access to those teleporters. Seems to me that making some of the areas we already have accessible is a lot less work than creating whole new areas for us to play in. How many players ever come to Heretics Hovel, Hidden Source, Bounty Beaches, Grove of Umbra and Knot of Dementia for anything besides treks?)

I think I' ve said it before: the reason why this happens is conveniance. You teleport in, walk 15 meters, see other harvesters digging, you prospect and start grabbing materials, bag full, teleport out, repeat. (note: don' t forget there' s people that like to harvest but can sometimes only play for 30 minutes or an hour a day, so moving around a lot might not be an option for those)
The second reason is safety: usually there' s a bunch of people around at those conveniant spots, either harvesting or hunting, so should you explode/gas yourself/get munched on, help is always near.

The possible solution I also mentioned somewhere before is one of symbiosis of foragers and fighter/mages as I still believe this is how gameplay in regards to KT was meant to be. Get yourself some 'guards' (either hire people to guard you or try to convince a hunting party to come hunt near you and keep you safe in one way or another) and head for those spots that aren' t so 'safe'.
It seems even the Karavan Envoy agrees with me on this:

Karavan Envoy wrote:Harvesters will gather materials while homin champions of the faith will guard against aggressors.

Also consider some other things:
1) influx of new players or people resubbing with Episode 2 and Outposts soon(TM)
2) a lot of players that have been around will be climbing up shortly if they haven' t already to those higher regions
So this will not get any better imo, only worse!

You really don' t have to believe me on all this but I forsee the following in a medium to short span of time for as long as the trend continues:
1) foragers and crafters without the necessary materials resulting in stagnation of both skills (either grinding or productivity) as we' ll have to share more and do with less ourselves
2) even more hoarding of materials resulting in a serious destabilisation of the makets as the few pieces that would get thrown on the markets would possibly be worth more than a finished product
3) lots of dead champions of the faith that tried to get those precious building materials for their godess but did not heed the warning given to them


I agree on the fact homins should be encouraged to dig in regions that relate to their skill range. But instead of a bonus to those who are in the right place, I' d be more inclined to incure a penalty on xp for those who aren' t. Higer level harvesters already get less xp in a lower ql region because they aren' t harvesting at max efficiency of their skill. Imo lower level harvesters should have to deal with this too in a region for which they don' t have the efficiency compared to the ql of the region (more like wasting it). If the Kami can smite you down for abusing Atys then I' m pretty sure both Kami and Karavan don' t like us wasting materials or deposits either as it probably will only slow down their goals.

Spliting the KT for timezones seems like a bad plan to me; it wouldn' t seem very logical for Atys to regenerate everything from one minute to the other and besides I can already imagine the wild mob of frenzied foragers gathering at the tp' s, swinging wildly with their picks getting an eye out here and there and then rush off as soon at the magical 'pop' of the KT bar happens and they all get in eachother' s way. I' d rather have we as homins work around the KT problem than have it' s gamemechanic changed because we are to lazy.

On the part of the boosting of the KT for higher ql regions: only if homins get encouraged to forage in the right regions or discouraged for harvesting in the wrong region; otherwise you won' t solve low-level foragers camping the easy spots in GoC for instance, but rather encourage it as the region can take more abuse, more foragers.

sidusar wrote:There's plenty of other places to dig q150-200 jungle mats, why should the below 150 foragers be forced to dig in more dangerous areas while the 150 plus foragers get a nice safe spot close to a town?

I have yet to find a region where there aren' t safe spots, even aggro-hell Bounty Beaches (which is seeing more and more foragers aparantly) has those. Ok, getting there first might be a problem.... if you' re on your own. I think those easy spots right next to town would also be more prone to having a low KT, no? So somehow it should even it out, or at least meant to like that.

sidusar wrote:Sometimes specific mats are more easier to find in higher level areas. If I want to make a set of light armor with +2 dodge on it, I need shu fiber. In GoC I can forage that right outside the Kami Altar, in Upper Bog it's in some faraway corner under all kinds of nasty creatures.

True, but you will almost never find all the materials you need in the same spot spot, so you will be encouraged to get the rest somehwere else. Plus I don' t think it will have such a great impact on the KT if you solely come in to grab a handfull of specific fiber or whatnot, then head out to get the rest. It' s a whole different story when you are just grinding a forage skill or foraging for grinding.

sidusar wrote:And then lastly there's all the teleporters that aren't working. Again, it doesn't seem fair to force the lower level forager to use a material deposit that's miles from any teleporter, so you can keep the one close to the teleporter to yourself.

Agreed to some extent, but again, those safe spots near the tp' s will have a rapidly dwindling KT too, forcing you yourself to move around too. But yes, having working tp' s in those areas would help. (euhm, also the ones in the Lakelands ql250 area please; I don' t mind walking a fair bit to get to a spot but dieing in order to get there or having certain death looming over my head while trying to get there isn' t a happy prospect (pun intended) )

I think diggers should be able to dig where they like, i lvled desert from 50-201 in dyron and yes i prob did lower the kt for everyone else, but at the end of the day im not going to walk around low lvl regions trying to find safe spots when in dyron you can dig with gaurds next to you. Dont know what the situation is like in all the other lands but i see the logic in digging in a safe and convenient place.

calel wrote:But instead of a bonus to those who are in the right place, I' d be more inclined to incure a penalty on xp for those who aren' t. Higer level harvesters already get less xp in a lower ql region because they aren' t harvesting at max efficiency of their skill.

it would be soo cool (and unpopular, which makes it even more better),
if in forage xp calculation it would use either "source max quality-50" or your foraging lvl (whichever is highest)...
so, being lvl50 and digging q60 in q200 zone would give you some 5 xp only
diggin q160+ in q200 zone would still give you normal xp.

everybody can chose where they dig, no restrictions above ground.

muahahaha
i'm serious about this... make it happen.

http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12203

Variables/Symbols Employed:
XP: experience gained for a harvesting action.
T: type of mat harvested; if basic T=1, Fine T=2, Choice T=3, Excellent T=4, Supreme T=5.
Q: quality of mat harvested; if you are pulling q100 mats then Q=100.
L: your foraging level; if you are digging in the desert and desert forage is 51, then L=51.
M: the number of mats harvested; if you get twelve mats in a pull then M=12.
E: the number of explosions/gas clouds or source deaths; if you get a poison cloud followed by a premature source exhaustion, then E=2, if you do a pull without any disasters then E=0
X: denotes multiplication

The Equation:

XP = (710 + 44.5T + 36.75(Q - L) + (64.5 + 3T)M) x (1 - 0.0982E)