Ryzom

Simple Poll, with the 'rebalancing' changes soon to be patched to ATS.

Do you really want heal to be reduced in power?

Just answer the poll please. If you want to discuss it go to here

Let's not start a long discussion on this thread folks. Just vote yes or no!

Details of the changes are here

Thought it was already.

I see both sides of the arguments, and I am kind of sitting on the fence on this one.
If I had to choose, I will probably pick the weaking of the heal, but not to the full extent that is propossed.

not a discussion just a point:

if you consider all heal changes (increased sap/stam/AoE) it looks like it's only weakened a little.

putting this in context with the other changes (resists/armor and jewel bonuses/reduced specials/etc) it's weakened even less.

the poll-question is partly invalid, since the heal magic tree is not weakened, here the maths:

now:
hp: 30, stam: 14, sap: 14 ; sum: 58

after halving the effectiveness of heal:
hp: 15, stam: 14, sap: 14 ; sum: 43

now the next step is:
HP * 1.5 -> SAP and STAM

-> result:
hp: 15, stam: 22, sap: 22 ; sum: 59

which is a change that i really welcome
add to that armor and reist changes like rushin stated above and not just view one part of he balance changes on it's own

Weakening heal will certainly make PvE a little harder so this will effect the bulk of my own game but taking PvP into account its overpowered, in PvP taking somone out only to see them bounce straight back up and at full health again in nano seconds is abit weird, so in the interests of game balancing i think the heal changes are worth trying.

rushin wrote:if you consider all heal changes (increased sap/stam/AoE) it looks like it's only weakened a little.

You're forgetting increased cost of double spells.

Plus the absorption changes aint that great, they've actually LOWERED the minimum as well as raising the maximum on heavy. The absorbtion factors aren't as great a change as halving HP heal is.

xenofur wrote:the poll-question is partly invalid, since the heal magic tree is not weakened, here the maths

Actually you're example is invalid because increasing stam and sap power DOES NOT balance halving HP. You can't DIE from losing stam or sap!

And what's the point in making heal stam and heal sap more powerful than heal HP??!! That's just dumb and they say it's going to be tweaked (i.e. lowered). Making you're example even more invalid.

Oh and which part of "Let's not start a long discussion on this thread folks" do you people not understand?

philu wrote:Actually you're example is invalid because increasing stam and sap power DOES NOT balance halving HP. You can't DIE from losing stam or sap!

And what's the point in making heal stam and heal sap more powerful than heal HP??!! That's just dumb and they say it's going to be tweaked (i.e. lowered). Making you're example even more invalid.

it means that all parties involved will have to THINK when setting up their actions, instead of just putting in a maximum hp credit and whatever sap/stam credit is necessary to make the action work...
aside from that, my example is EXACTLY what they described: 1. halve hp heal 2. change sap/stam heal to 1.5 of hp heal AFTER step 1

philu wrote:Oh and which part of "Let's not start a long discussion on this thread folks" do you people not understand?

which part of "Come in, pull up a chair, let's discuss all things Ryzom-related." do you not understand?

*pulls up a chair*

xenofur wrote:it means that all parties involved will have to THINK when setting up their actions, instead of just putting in a maximum hp credit and whatever sap/stam credit is necessary to make the action work...

What's credits got to do with it? You were talking about power not credits. I stand by what I said

philu wrote:increasing stam and sap power DOES NOT balance halving HP. You can't DIE from losing stam or sap!

Simple fact, you lose all your stamina or sap, you can only use zero cost actions. But you can still do SOMETHING. You lose all your HP, you can do NOTHING cos you're in a coma!

Increasing the POWER of stamina and sap heals does NOT balance halving HP heals because they have different effects. So you can heal half as much more stamina than HP....so what? Not much use to you if you're dead!

xenofur wrote: aside from that, my example is EXACTLY what they described: 1. halve hp heal 2. change sap/stam heal to 1.5 of hp heal AFTER step 1

I never said you're example didn't show what they described (until they tweak the values to something completely different). I said it was invalid because the maths you used doesn't take into account that you can DIE from losing HP. Whether the increase to stam/sap power compared to current makes the numbers better is irrelevant. It isn't a simple matter of numbers, it's about whether or not, as a healer, I can keep someone alive.

More stamina and sap are irrelevant IF YOU ARE DEAD!

These changes are going to make my job as a healer harder. My team will die more and I don't like that. And all because of a bunch of fighters whining about mages being too powerful. This change doesn't address the real 'problem', nerf the elementals not me!

The purpose of this post was to see what the majority thought. If people really thought it was a good idea to nerf healing. So far, it looks like I'm in the minority. If it stays that way then we'll just have to see how the changes pan out.

I'll try it, I'll access whether I feel they have spoiled the gameplay. If I do, I'll leave.

Just remember one thing, if you vote yes, don't start whining about dying when the changes come in!

If I'm not mistaken, Xenofur is referring to the fact that most homins now use max hp credits instead of sap and stamina credits since hp is so much easier to heal (due to the power of hp heals) than the other juices. In reality, we are now using hp for much more than staying alive. The proposed changes simply will encourage us to start looking at hp as hp - and not as a more efficient credit to use in lieu of stamina or sap. Whether they get the balance right is another story altogether... but I can appreciate the intent behind this change.

It might also get more interesting for crafters to place other bonuses rather than the usual hp (or focus - which is different since it cannot be replaced by hp credits and is actually being used) on their wares.

nijht wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Xenofur is referring to the fact that most homins now use max hp credits instead of sap and stamina credits since hp is so much easier to heal (due to the power of hp heals) than the other juices. In reality, we are now using hp for much more than staying alive. The proposed changes simply will encourage us to start looking at hp as hp - and not as a more efficient credit to use in lieu of stamina or sap. Whether they get the balance right is another story altogether... but I can appreciate the intent behind this change.

It might also get more interesting for crafters to place other bonuses rather than the usual hp (or focus - which is different since it cannot be replaced by hp credits and is actually being used) on their wares.

Yeah OK i'll give you that one, but I'm not entirely sure that's Nevrax's intention. It WOULD be a stealth way to reduce the effectiveness of elementalists, by making them use other credits that reduce their range and speed of casting but doesn't really address the fighter whine.

MY point is that these changes have far more impact on healers than nukers. Why reduce the power of heal when it's the nukers that are too powerful?!

Also remember this, if they reduce the power of heal then the players who will be affected most are the FIGHTERS. They will die more often when they tank because the healer can't heal them fast enough.