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guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:04 pm
by keoni
I would like to post a new thread (preferably a sticky one) in the Guild forum, modeled after Spriteh's "List of Guilds". Here, guilds or alliances would announce notable changes in their diplomatic relations towards one another: declarations of war or other degrees of hostility, peace treaties, pacts of mutual defense or cooperation, and so on. I think that for this to work, all discussions of the circumstances involving the change of relations (especially declarations of war) would need to be kept in their own thread if discussed at all, so that if the disagreement became heated it would at least be compartmentalized.
I think this would be helpful, because too often it seems nobody is sure whom is hostile or friendly with whom - I've often run into members of guilds supposedly at war with another guild, and yet they're entirely unaware of this. Similarly, often vague threats of guild warfare are made in the forums, but given the wiggle-room of how things were said, nobody knows if that really means guild A is now at war with guild B. This would be a place for the sabre-rattlers to do so in a definitive public way.
So - before I go ahead and post that I'm looking for feedback. I think it would be best with the root posting updated to show the synopsis of current guild stances towards one another, while new postings are added from the guilds involved, only as needed to signal a change in relations. Sound good?
Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:56 pm
by vguerin
This would pretty much be a waste of time for exactly the reasons you stated... If the guild is not telling their folks IG or in their own forums who they are at war with, what good would it do having it in these forums where the player don't most likely browse.
It's actions not words... All the sabre rattling in the forums typically amounts to very little IG. Just one more thread we'd have to browse daily...
There's nothing to stop you from posting a thread, build it and they may come... Personally I believe my enemies will know I am at war with them when the beatdown comes, you wont need a forums post...
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Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:00 pm
by keoni
vguerin wrote:This would pretty much be a waste of time for exactly the reasons you stated... If the guild is not telling their folks IG or in their own forums who they are at war with, what good would it do having it in these forums where the player don't most likely browse.
It's actions not words... All the sabre rattling in the forums typically amounts to very little IG. Just one more thread we'd have to browse daily...
DT, not everyone reads the forums, but everyone who plays has the *capability* to read the forums. It would be of use, because it would add clarity - any player who was unsure of how one guild felt towards another, could be directed to that one overview thread. It could show both friendships (short of full alliances, which are already declared in "List of Guilds") as well as hostilities. Like when you go to the ballbark - "you can't tell the players without a program."
As for just commiting acts of war, without bothering to declare war in a formal way... in most civilized societies, that's considered both dishonorable and an act of cowardice. Thus all the more reason for a central location to declare your intentions. Which guilds will have the courage and honor to declare their intentions in advance, rather than wait for a moment of opportunity to their liking?
Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:11 pm
by vguerin
keoni wrote:As for just commiting acts of war, without bothering to declare war in a formal way, in most civilized societies, that's considered both dishonorable and an act of cowardice. Thus all the more reason for a central location to declare your intentions. Which guilds will have the courage and honor to declare their intentions in advance, rather than wait for a moment of opportunity to their liking?
You have got to be joking right ?
"You guys in Guild X have a few days to prepare your defenses before we attack"
Now, I am sure somewhere those tactics have a military significance... not in my world. Historically this has not been true, no sane reason it should occur in the future either. This would increase the risk of homins and resources needed to achieve an objective that was already obvious...
If you follow a false prophet like Ma-Duk, or do not actively serve Jena... you are against those of us that do. What more warning is needed other than a consistant public stance ?
ADVANCED WARNING TO ALL !
Serve Jena with your actions (not words) or else... Anything else is working against us and considered an act of war... Battles are not fought at your enemies liking, they are fought on yours...
nuff said.....
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Click here to join Melinoe or read
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Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:03 pm
by keoni
vguerin wrote:You have got to be joking right ?
"You guys in Guild X have a few days to prepare your defenses before we attack"
Now, I am sure somewhere those tactics have a military significance... not in my world. Historically this has not been true, no sane reason it should occur in the future either. This would increase the risk of homins and resources needed to achieve an objective that was already obvious...
I've studied a lot of military and geopolitical history. Sure, surprise attacks are militarily effective in the short term - but they also are remembered as "days that will live in infamy", and inspire those attacked to fight back all the harder against those who sucker-punched them. To state the entirely obvious, declaring war does not mean telling the enemy when/where/how you are going to attack them, so yours is a straw-man argument.
As for your closing statement about all the actions you're going to take against any of those who don't support Jena - that presents an excellent example of why I think a diplomatic relations thread is needed: to better identify when someone is just talking the talk, rather than walking the walk. Simply put, if you actually translated those words into actions, you would be killing kami & neutral alligned people in PR, you would be doing whatever you could to prevent the heretics from harvesting supreme materials, etc... and your guild would soon be at war with two-thirds or so of the player base. But, to the best of my knowledge, Melinoe is in fact peaceful, and not currently warring with anyone.
Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:17 pm
by mrshad
vguerin wrote:
"You guys in Guild X have a few days to prepare your defenses before we attack"
If the ultimatum were "You guys in Guild X have 3 days to comply with our demands or you will be attacked," then you have something...a last chance for a return to table diplomacy.
Warning your enemies about your time of attack is a little counter productive.
But, an official declaration of war sometime prior to offensive manuvers, I think, is good form.
(This doens't mean I think PvP is a good idea)
Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:55 pm
by thebax
vguerin wrote:If you follow a false prophet like Ma-Duk, or do not actively serve Jena...
I gits along wit ya DT, so's I'd aprecciates it iffin ya didna takes dis as a wise crack or nuthin', but wot about those o' us wot don' wants any higher power tellin' us wot to do?
Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:10 pm
by vguerin
keoni wrote:you would be killing kami & neutral alligned people in PR, you would be doing whatever you could to prevent the heretics from harvesting supreme materials, etc...
There is nothing in the game yet worth RPing it that hard... There will be a time and place when it may come to that.
The dev's have not made the game mechanics implimented to a point where we have to be zealots. The silly Kami still sell me tickets and my fame is -68 personal and -100 guild. We are merely playing our role as we planned it before the game was released... Still these many months later things are not in the game yet that can really have us play it out as you well know. Melinoe is peaceful and typically will always be except when the turds get on our nerves... When Jena needs us (game event related) we will not be in the background... we are just not big RPers... we dabble and try to attend everything except "council" type stuff as we serve Jena and she aint made a council meeting yet
___________________
DoubleTap - Disciple of Jena - Master Melee Dueler
Matis Dual Blader & Medium Gladiator Champion (Undefeated)
Click here to join Melinoe or read
Ultimate Harvesting Guide
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters http://ryzom.twazz.net/
WWJD - What Would Jena Do ?
Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:11 pm
by rushin
vguerin wrote:If you follow a false prophet like Ma-Duk, or do not actively serve Jena... you are against those of us that do. What more warning is needed other than a consistant public stance ?
My dear Vguerin, if you follow Jena, and her false promises then sadly you will feel the wrath of Ma-Duk. Those of us that have spent time meditating in the jungle may not be as vocal as those swayed by Jena's promises of power and domination but believe me we are here, and we will oppose you at every turn. (
)
Re: guild diplomatic relations: public postings
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:47 am
by keoni
vguerin wrote:There is nothing in the game yet worth RPing it that hard... There will be a time and place when it may come to that. The dev's have not made the game mechanics implimented to a point where we have to be zealots.
Agreed... Other than RP, which I don't discount as a motive, there's no substantive reason (in the sense of anything to lose or gain) for the Kami-alligned and Karavan-alligned to fight. Eventually, I'm sure there will be.