Some thoughts on foraging (and crafting)...
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:45 pm
Yes it's me again, with yet another rambling diatribe in which I will attempt to make salient points without sending everyone either to sleep or insane.
I have spent some time discussing foraging with the night shift (you guys know who you are
) and we have come across some points that I believe are worth thinking on, so as usual, in no particular order...
1. Harvesting multiple mats
I have found that there seems to be a discrepancy in XP for harvesting as you get higher in level and start pulling more than one mat at a time. For example, at one point I was getting 1k XP for pulling one mat, and 1080 XP for pulling two at a time. When I went up a level I got 1039 XP for a double pull. Now please correct me if I'm wrong here, but surely if I use more difficult and expensive actions and take higher risks from sources blowing up etc, I should be rewarded accordingly? I would expect to at least get the same XP per mat however many I pull from a source, and yet I get progressively less the more I pull.
I believe this is working as intended, but I am unsure as to the intent (if that makes sense).
2. Hit points for harvesters
Now to an extent this also applies to magic users, but there are differences as I see it. As a player, I understand that to have maximum hit points, I need to keep my fight level up. As a forager, why should I be forced to level melee in order to forage at my level? Let me give you an example - I just hit level 60 in forage and can now pull Q100 mats. In fact, I must pull Q100 mats in order to make any kind of progress as Q50 mats now give around 800 XP per pull. I can and do pull Q100 mats just fine until a source blows up, then I'm toast. The reason? I only have 550HP. My melee level is 40 and 550HP is the most I can have from forage level 60. The sources blow for up to 600 or more damage, so one hit and I'm dead. As forage sources tend to blow more regularly than Old Faithful, I'm in a bit of a pickle. I spend twice as much time working off DP from blowups and travelling from my nearest spawn to the level 100 fields than I do actually achieving anything.
Now, I know I could simply take someone with me and get them to use ground stability etc, but that just brings me on to my next point...
3. Group harvesting
Let me say straight off that some of this is hearsay, so please correct me if I'm wrong. As I understand it, if I assist another harvester by using ground stability, resource preservation etc, I get XP for doing so. All well and good. However, I have been told that this XP comes at the expense of the person actually harvesting, and they get less XP per pull as a result.
Now, I am primarily a solo player, but I do know that in a MMOG grouping should always bring a benefit. In this case the benefit (not getting blown up) seems to be offset by a rather harsh penalty (loss of potential XP). I know folks that used to 'drive by' other people's sources and hit them up with what they thought was an assist, only to be told not to. Perhaps the way XP is handled for group harvesting should be reconsidered, particularly as the 'economy' is pretty much non existent right now as there are virtually no mats being traded outside of guilds.
And finally, a few words on crafting and materials. I have seen (primarily on the island) people asking exorbitant prices for items made with storebought or basic mats, and people paying them. There is one thing that everyone needs to pay attention to...
BASIC MATS ARE USELESS!!
Basic mats are good for nothing except crafting purely for XP, or selling to vendors to raise cash. If you are making equipment to use or to sell, you really should be aiming for choice mats as a minimum, preferably excellent or supreme should be used.
The issue is that as the game only really started a short time ago, there are very few mats available for sale to non foragers. I know I use all mine for crafting and have none left over to sell, and many others have been forced into harvesting to supply themselves with mats to make equipment.
Hopefully, once the game has been going for a while and the population grows, people will start to sell mats rather than hoard them for themselves or their guilds, but until then times will be hard for non harvester/crafters. The only advice I can give to people just coming into the game is to ask what mats the item you're buying is made from. Don't accept any old tat just because the crafter in question was the first one to respond. Ask around. There are many, many crafters out there who can make stuff up to and including Q50, and do so using choice or higher mats.
Believe me, you'll be amazed at the difference between items made with basic mats and ones made with choice or higher, and to illustrate, yet another example - a Q20 two handed sword made with basic mats will do 46 damage and around 16 hits per minute. The same weapons made with high speed/damage recipe will do almost double the damage and yield 22 hits per minute, so you see, it pays to shop around...
As always, your thoughts on the above are much appreciated.
I have spent some time discussing foraging with the night shift (you guys know who you are
) and we have come across some points that I believe are worth thinking on, so as usual, in no particular order...1. Harvesting multiple mats
I have found that there seems to be a discrepancy in XP for harvesting as you get higher in level and start pulling more than one mat at a time. For example, at one point I was getting 1k XP for pulling one mat, and 1080 XP for pulling two at a time. When I went up a level I got 1039 XP for a double pull. Now please correct me if I'm wrong here, but surely if I use more difficult and expensive actions and take higher risks from sources blowing up etc, I should be rewarded accordingly? I would expect to at least get the same XP per mat however many I pull from a source, and yet I get progressively less the more I pull.
I believe this is working as intended, but I am unsure as to the intent (if that makes sense).
2. Hit points for harvesters
Now to an extent this also applies to magic users, but there are differences as I see it. As a player, I understand that to have maximum hit points, I need to keep my fight level up. As a forager, why should I be forced to level melee in order to forage at my level? Let me give you an example - I just hit level 60 in forage and can now pull Q100 mats. In fact, I must pull Q100 mats in order to make any kind of progress as Q50 mats now give around 800 XP per pull. I can and do pull Q100 mats just fine until a source blows up, then I'm toast. The reason? I only have 550HP. My melee level is 40 and 550HP is the most I can have from forage level 60. The sources blow for up to 600 or more damage, so one hit and I'm dead. As forage sources tend to blow more regularly than Old Faithful, I'm in a bit of a pickle. I spend twice as much time working off DP from blowups and travelling from my nearest spawn to the level 100 fields than I do actually achieving anything.
Now, I know I could simply take someone with me and get them to use ground stability etc, but that just brings me on to my next point...
3. Group harvesting
Let me say straight off that some of this is hearsay, so please correct me if I'm wrong. As I understand it, if I assist another harvester by using ground stability, resource preservation etc, I get XP for doing so. All well and good. However, I have been told that this XP comes at the expense of the person actually harvesting, and they get less XP per pull as a result.
Now, I am primarily a solo player, but I do know that in a MMOG grouping should always bring a benefit. In this case the benefit (not getting blown up) seems to be offset by a rather harsh penalty (loss of potential XP). I know folks that used to 'drive by' other people's sources and hit them up with what they thought was an assist, only to be told not to. Perhaps the way XP is handled for group harvesting should be reconsidered, particularly as the 'economy' is pretty much non existent right now as there are virtually no mats being traded outside of guilds.
And finally, a few words on crafting and materials. I have seen (primarily on the island) people asking exorbitant prices for items made with storebought or basic mats, and people paying them. There is one thing that everyone needs to pay attention to...
BASIC MATS ARE USELESS!!
Basic mats are good for nothing except crafting purely for XP, or selling to vendors to raise cash. If you are making equipment to use or to sell, you really should be aiming for choice mats as a minimum, preferably excellent or supreme should be used.
The issue is that as the game only really started a short time ago, there are very few mats available for sale to non foragers. I know I use all mine for crafting and have none left over to sell, and many others have been forced into harvesting to supply themselves with mats to make equipment.
Hopefully, once the game has been going for a while and the population grows, people will start to sell mats rather than hoard them for themselves or their guilds, but until then times will be hard for non harvester/crafters. The only advice I can give to people just coming into the game is to ask what mats the item you're buying is made from. Don't accept any old tat just because the crafter in question was the first one to respond. Ask around. There are many, many crafters out there who can make stuff up to and including Q50, and do so using choice or higher mats.
Believe me, you'll be amazed at the difference between items made with basic mats and ones made with choice or higher, and to illustrate, yet another example - a Q20 two handed sword made with basic mats will do 46 damage and around 16 hits per minute. The same weapons made with high speed/damage recipe will do almost double the damage and yield 22 hits per minute, so you see, it pays to shop around...
As always, your thoughts on the above are much appreciated.
