Ryzom

Well now, I really have to apologize to you Faa.
Maybe it´s the language barrier for both of us, but I seem to have completely misread your post before the last.

My sincerest apologies again for that.

This new post explains a lot of your points a little deeper and now I see that we´re even walking some common ground here.

You are in fact right about many of the things you state here and I made some wrong assumptions based on probably some phrases that went the wrong way for you

And digging for me at least is rather linear, because I think I figured out the best way to do it, at least for myself. I know there are more ways to dig a source than fingers on both hands, but I´ve found my way and I use it pretty conveniently.
I don´t want to fill my bag with the max. amount of stuff in the min. amount of time. I enjoy digging for its relaxing atmosphere.
Nothing like digging a few hours with some nice quite music in the background and the soothing sounds of the Prime Roots.

And how many stanzas I use I actually can´t remember right now.
I can just tell you that I use each and everyone that is available to a 227 Woods-Digger and 200 Roots Digger.
With some variants Actions thrown in for weather and stuff...

I´d have to look at the game to tell you precisely, sorry.

CU
Acridiel

my 2 cents when digging,

some of you may remember when the windermeer server merged with the arispotle ( CBA checking to see if spelling is right) there was some trouble with some digger from the one of the servers using digging stanza's that where setting off the kami tolerance... mainly the lower lvl diggers around TB (towerbridge). it appears they were using all harmful thus either blowing up source or destroying source.

i only got to 180 digging or somewhere around there anyhow i remember trying to figure about which stanzas to use as all my stanzas equaled more then my counterpart... once i got the general idea of which worked better i used the stanza for ages... cant remember lay out though been way to long

Oh well, I read it all and found nothing of note, tbh I couldnt even see what the argument of epic psots were about other than misunderstandings. I am however struck by the assumtion of some posters that there is a "right way" to play ryzom and that some types of players are not wanted.

There are players who certainly did not fit the ryzom mould when they came to the game, sunce being a good example of that. Everyone has had a dig at him at some points but he's certainly a laugh whether you are with him or against him.

Like any other game each micro-community is kind of at each others necks with what they expect from the game but with ryzom you generally dont notice it as much because the faction wars overshadow so much.

There have been many people who have started with the WoW attitude but slowly been changed by the game when they realise there is another way. New and different players is one of the last things I would personally discourage regardless of their gaming attitude.

As for the suggestions, mob resistances would be a good start, more options for melee's too (fixing 1h totally would be helpful), my favorite change however would be to GET THE BLEEDING SERVERS ON!!!!

arfindel wrote: I do _not_ argue that stanzas are useless, I argue that stanzas are not reinforced by game play enough

....
felt betrayed at the not used complexity that was there implemented.
...

This is exactly my feelings.

Note:Chopped outmost of the post due to avoid the Humongous Wall Of Text, so I'm sorry if anyone feels that my quotes are taken out of context, but I don't think they are from having read Faa's post.

But I would like to see so much more than just damage types mattering more - although this would be nice - there are vast amounts of things that can be done with combat magic - why limit it to a few different types of damage and a few control spells?
Someone said that it didn't matter how much you added - there would always be an optimum. In my opinion this is such a limited view! give us stanza's that do all sorts of different things - so that instead of the basic roles we have now in combat - tank, healer, nuker and possibly an afflictionist, we can have people doing far, far more things, and in varied and interesting ways.
Lets see the healers not just restore hitpoints, but be able to make the nukers spells more powerful, or the tank more able to deflect blows. Lets see the afflictionist be able to exert so much control over a creature or creatures that the tank takes much less damage, and the healer can spend his or her time doing all the other options available.

Currently, if I'm nuking, I select a spell that matches the creatures weakness to damage types, and at a power level that fits with the amount of healing availiable then just spam it. I might throw a fear if an uninvited creature comes along to help, but basically its not that difficult.

If I'm healing I have a large and small HP heal, and likewise for sap and stamina heals. I have a combined HP and sap heal, and a combined hp and stamina heal. I have some AoE versions of the above. Thats not nearly as much flexibility as it sounds like, and consequently healing is useful but intensely boring.

I actually really like the affliction skills, but they are slow to level and not as useful as they should be - its not that easy to maintain a link and the induction times are long-ish. Even when they hold, they are single target and I cannot do anything else (even move) while they are in effect - so to make an enemy run away from me - even under ideal conditions - I cast the spell, by which time they have been able to run almost right up to me - and then the link is created, and they run away from me while I stay still until the link expires. In very short order the creature is back again.

I'm a master of elemental magic. Why is this the limit of what I am able to do?
Why can't I create an aura around myself, in which people regenerate much faster, or an aura around the tank which harms enemies? Why can't I do anything about incoming hostile spells (regardless of whether they are from a cratcha or a Karavan)? Why aren't there hundreds of options and possibilities?

The stanza system is criminally underused - I would love to see some of the complexity that could be there, but just isn't.

fadebait wrote: Why can't I create an aura around myself, in which people regenerate much faster, or an aura around the tank which harms enemies? Why can't I do anything about incoming hostile spells (regardless of whether they are from a cratcha or a Karavan)? Why aren't there hundreds of options and possibilities?

You actually have auras that regenerate health/sap/stamina (provided the others are in your team). At least if you have mastered melee (hp/stam), and there is a shield protecting the target, but you take some of the damage instead. But a shield that harms enemies sounds nice. But some of the limits are part of Ryzom. If you want more, then it reminds of other mmo's. (They got shielding for anything and not only yourself)

micke68 wrote:You actually have auras that regenerate health/sap/stamina (provided the others are in your team). At least if you have mastered melee (hp/stam), and there is a shield protecting the target, but you take some of the damage instead.

um, there is? I guess its too long since I played My memory isn't the best, it seems....

Yup, there is.
And an aura that deals damage, or rather reflects it, is at the end of one of the few functioning rites in Zoraï. It´ls got a lot to do with Bawaabs

And yes, it would be pretty cool to have even more stanzas available, guess that would make some sense of the unused XP at the end of many skill trees and maybe even the guild trainers, eh?

Another guess is that´s what they and the left out rites were for.
More stanzas/actions/etc.

Now someones just gotta use this to some effect.

CU
Acridiel

Fadebait: Actually the auras are incremented by the people using them and in wars they had a beautiful effect when used together at same time, that was a very nice touch for mass pvp. There is one or two auras that rites give us but they are heavily underpowered (while graphically beautiful).
Like this.
Acridiel, appologies accepted and I had no doubt we actually want similar things only dictionary stays between us

Jack: there is a ping pong game between player not wanted and player who doesn't belong in Ryzom's frame. WoW type, l33t teen is generally both. But you mentionned names that prove exceptions are possible. Imo if a WoW type, l33t teen or whatever other kind of unwanted player really enjoys the game and gets over the drawbacks that the label "unwanted" triggers (which are not few) then generally he becomes part of the community right as he is with small adjustments he himself does, without losing the kernel of personality. If you are watching the "missing" thread you'll see there a handful of "unwanted" names wanted now. And I trust they are genuinely wanted, because in time they became the exceptions, the naughty rebels of an establishment, loved as such. However they are not typical and cannot be taken into consideration when trying to figure out how to enlarge the player base. Their behaviour is more of a happening than a planned effect.

NB: not only fist fighters are underpowered but also 1h vs 2h. What real chances has a knife weider against an axe weilder? One may argue a knive should never beat an axe. I doubt. But even accepting a knive should never win when the stanzas are correctly and creatively done, the fight should be hard and the 2hander should be very good to win a fight against a same good 1h. As it is now, the 2hander generally doesn't need much effort, and if he also has an OP mat weapon, he just has to wait it give it's first crit.

In digging, mhm, probably personal style here involved. I had preferred to not be obliged to go magic (afflis often help more than nuking) when digging, and as a crazy completely dedicated digger, I suffer a lot when getting in a hard area to see how I throw away first choice mats, then exce mats ) This is one powerful memory lol, think I thrown away tones of exce because of space.

About "any boss" I retain some doubt.. you really mean Vorkoo, Jukoo and Kinkoo? If you duo these I have to see it. Promisse to bring a lot of stinga rum for the winner too (only I wonder what Vorkoo may do once drunk hihihi).

The healers don't go down first only because they fight in LA but also because they are targetted heavily both in pve and pvp. That's a totally another thread flesh about a good healer, a mobile healer, aso. A nuker without knowledge about what the meleer is doing, without basic decent heal to help his meleer and without use of afflictions, sorry to say is a newbie in Ryzom, and I do expect him to go down fast or even be a liability for the group.

And Sehra is one of my favourite clever fighters... geez you and Acridiel not only stole my attention but made me write again with one only meaning: God, I love this game.

Cmon let's remember what we didn't like keep the debate interesting lol.

arfindel wrote: The healers don't go down first only because they fight in LA but also because they are targetted heavily both in pve and pvp. That's a totally another thread flesh about a good healer, a mobile healer, aso. A nuker without knowledge about what the meleer is doing, without basic decent heal to help his meleer and without use of afflictions, sorry to say is a newbie in Ryzom, and I do expect him to go down fast or even be a liability for the group.

*Sirens go off and lots of flashing lights (and Nightblade falls over holding onto his head for the horrible headache..)*

DING DING DING! thats the golden paragraph right there. THAT is what i meant about "after 2 weeks any player knows what they're doing" so to speak. Anyone that has only 1 high level and a bunch of lower levels - nothing wrong with this person for sure but they are nowhere near 'effective' in brawling combat. these are "high level newbies"

Now that we're all on common ground (and i have some odd urge to hug Jackoo?) someone turn the servers on!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, reading all posts again I can't shake the feeling we're all on the same page and just arguing over semantics.

I'm just gonna go back to the topic that started it all and try to be more clear what I meant this time.

fadebait wrote:Someone said that it didn't matter how much you added - there would always be an optimum.

Yeah, that'd be me, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough, I'll try again.

Yes, my point is that there will always be an optimum. Right now the fastest way to kill a najab as a nuker is to spam the double-electric spell 3 or 4 times. If you add a lot of stanzas in, then maybe the fastest way to kill a najab as a nuker will be a complex combination of 5 different spells is a specific order. But there will be a fastest way to kill a najab, and it will be the same for every najab. The fastest way to level on najabs will still be to apply that same method over and over.

But I agree with you in wanting lots of different stanzas, because it can give us a thousand other ways to kill that najab that are only slightly less efficient than the 'ultimate best' way. Thus giving us the choice to play around and spent that entire levelling afternoon finding new and creative ways to kill najabs if we're willing to sacrifice a little efficiency.

I was just trying to say that this will always be the player's choice - those who just want to level in the most efficient way possible will still be killing najabs by spamming the same attack over and over. No matter how many stanzas the devs implement, and how many different ways to kill a najab we get as a result, you still have to choose for yourself to actually use different ways instead of just finding the optimum way and then only using that one.

Lastly, the reason I'm asking for more variety in creature resistances, is because I don't want hunting najabs to be pretty much the exact same activity as hunting jugulas or hunting kinchers or hunting anything whatsoever. That doesn't mean I want there to be only one correct way to hunt najabs!

fadebait wrote:The stanza system is criminally underused - I would love to see some of the complexity that could be there, but just isn't.

QFE!

The auras are a case in point here. We have 3 protection aura's (melee/magic/ranged), 3 regeneration aura's (health/sap/stamina), the warcry aura, and the -accuracy aura from the rite... and there's no way whatsoever to fine-tune these aura's via the stanza system. They're ready-made actions on a timer, like you'd expect from standard MMO's, a total injustice to Ryzom's stanza system.