Ryzom

I still say its a fair review, you want me to go point by point on your criticisms, fine:

trosky wrote: Also innacurate in lots of thing he said :

« its character-development system is needlessly complex » : im playing since open beta and i dont see anything too complex to be undertsand in a month of play wich is usual to many mmorpg and a game too simple just get boring real fast...

« As a result, players tend to develop jack-of-all-trades characters, and there's little incentive to create more than one character »

"You can try to be a jack-of-all-trade, however the way XP works it would take you 30 X times. For exemple If i want to lvl in both Offensive Magic and Deffensive Magic, so in a fight you use nukes, healing if in group and crowd control. Lets say im soloing, using nuke-nuke-fear-nuke-nuke-fear, if im killing the strongest thing I can, ie get 3000 exp total, since i used fear a lot less then nukes ill get around 300 exp in Defffensive and 2700 in Offensive. I will take me forever to lvl my Deffensive magic this way. The only way to lvl a group efficiantly is to use only that group during a certain fight. Believe me no one do that. You choose lets say, Offensive Magic, Harvesting, Melee weapons crafting and keep your fighings skills to gain more hp / hp regenaration."

Maybe, but the way I see it if you're going to spend that time working an ALT, there's no reason to as you can just level you main in a different branch. This has it's good points and bad which can be argued, but I do not disagree with Desslock's point that this discourages the use of alts. Why make an alt when you can just level a different line on your main. No really, I'm asking. Is there a reason?

« Ryzom's biggest problem is that there really isn't anything to do in the game other than work on improving character stats, and doing so is far more monotonous than engaging. »


"Yeah there is a grind, name one MMORPG without grind ? anything else to do ? no way, may i remind you of the game feature : raid engine (groups of monster attacking your favorite town), guild vs guild battle, PvP arena, duel, questing, tasking (smaller quest, get X, kill Y). So whats is there to do ? everything you are used in PvP (no Pking) and PvE games (by the way named mobs are awsome). I know some of those features are not in game yet, its not the first mmorpg incomplete at release (Lineage 2 had balancing issus, bugs and the castle siege came with chronicle 1, 1 month after release)"

Raid engine - Never seen my town being attacked, I suppose it would be cool. Does it happen enough to make me keep my sub?

PvP Arena - In (almost) every game, this game has much more limited PvP options than others if that is your cup of tea

Duel - Again, every other game (almost)

Questing - Where? Only quests I get are spot this, kill this, harvest this, craft this. Are there real quests? Are there real low level quests?

Tasking - Plenty of these as described above, getting paid extra to do the only thing there is to do in the game.

What's missing? Real quests, story, characters everywhere which contribute to the backstory, characters with variety, low level dungeons, instanced quests/missions, and tons else... Not to mention that I do not see any real innovations which advance the gameplay at all.

« but there's no auction or marketplace feature, so you're forced to spam the chat system to buy or sell goods »

"Auction house npc are coming in patch 1, again not the first mmorpg to be that way and all of them got better score then ryzom."

Yet, in a game with no loot other than player made loot, this becomes an even bigger flaw than it was in other games. Probably not the sole reason for his score, but worth mentioning.

« Even worse, there's no proportionate allocation of experience points in recognition of a character's contribution to a kill. That doesn't matter if all the characters are on the same team, since they'll share the experience-point reward equally »

"xp in ryzom is always relative to the highest lvl of skill used. So if your in a team, exp will be determined by the highest player and everyone else gonna get that. It may seems bad but in fact in a great way to encourage groupping and make it possible to have a wide lvl range in a team."

His point was that this system inherently supports kill stealers efforts. He pointed out that xp in groups was split, but that it made kill stealing a problem. Frankly, the population numbers are what make kill stealing not seem to be an issue at all. If there were more players, I might notice this more.

Character mounts are mentioned, but are so far absent. »

"Packers animal are now in, mount are coming soon. Anyway the Karavan are always there to satisfy your travelling needs."."

As you said, no mounts. Reviews review what's in game, if they start reviewing promises to come, I stop reading them.

« as creatures frequently "slingshot" around the environment. »

"It hapens when pulling mobs or when using fear, 1 time out of 100 kills.... it happen more if you use fear alot but its not a major issu at all, you can fully enjoy the game since it doesnt affect gameplay."

I've seen this quite a bit frankly. Especially with hostile creatures that agro from what should be out of range and then suddenly appear on your behind, after zig zagging around the world a bit.

« Characters are effectively glued to the ground, so they can't pass seemingly minor variations in terrain. »

"Except from AO ive never seen an mmorpg where you can jump…. Oh no i cant jump, this makes the game boring, i want to jump around like a little bunny… LOL"

Well, all the ones I've played you could jump. Frankly not a big problem, till you see you can't get up that 2 inch cliff that any normal person could skip over in stride. It's used to create barriers of travel, and was properly pointed out. I do view it as unnaturally limiting.

« There are very few character-customization options, and each tweak seems designed to inevitably transform your character into a doppelgänger of Gerard Depardieu. »

"For every one interested in ryzom, go take a look at the different screenshots, i’ve never seen any other toons that looked even just like mine. The comment about Gerard Depardieu is just plain stupid and pointless."

Everyone I've seen looks the same, but my experience is limited, as for the last part, I believe he was referring to the overexagerated facial features and models that the game uses. Huge noses, ears, pointy chins, very charicature like. I picked a Ryker cause that were the only models IMHO that didn't look just plain silly

« While it's a novel mechanic, in practice the functionality variations are quickly adopted by seasoned players, but effectively make it more difficult for less-motivated players to be successful in the game. »

"It makes great personnal costumization. For exemple you can keep different version of a spell. Ive git my nuking spells in 3 copy, one is for best range, on for best casting time (really helpfull in close combat if you want to use magic) and one free (no sap consumed) that can be used when your empty in sap."

So far the whole system to me is still a huge question mark. I'm an experienced gamer, have been trying to do some reading on how it works, but I just have a great big, HUH? As he desribed novel, but difficult to grasp for less research intensive players

« It's extremely difficult to effectively solo on the mainland, particularly as a predominately magic-using character, since the abilities are badly unbalanced and creatures have a tendency to attack in groups. »

"Looks like he was trying to be a mage without using his brain, im a nuker, ive soloed all the way to lvl 50 (grouped for less then 5 lvls). Yeah some mobs group, you got to be smart and prevent them from grouping… use your brain. (Oh im being bad here, but this is so true...). And balacing issus are common and "normal" in the beginning of a PvP games."

So he did it wrong... You did it right...

« In many ways Ryzom seems like a throwback to the first generation of MMORPGs, since it seems to have more in common with the first Asheron's Call than, say, this year's City of Heroes.: »

"Whats so innovative, or second genaration about CoH (fast action!?!?!)… Honestly i’ve played and tryed alot of mmorpg, Ryzom is a lot more « second generation » then CoH, whats next ? your gonna say L2 is better?"

Without getting into an area the management disapproves of, I'll just say look to my above post for comments about CoH.

lucid120 wrote:It is a review, a critique. I don't understand how you can expect a game critic to be ANY different from any other type of critic in the entertainment industry, where they base their review on exactly how THEY felt about the game. It's not some robotic regurgitation of facts, otherwise it's not much of a review.

You are totally right, whats hes doing is similar to writting a review of a film when the reviewer only seen the first 15 mins.

lucid120 wrote:It is a review, a critique. I don't understand how you can expect a game critic to be ANY different from any other type of critic in the entertainment industry, where they base their review on exactly how THEY felt about the game. It's not some robotic regurgitation of facts, otherwise it's not much of a review.

He has proven that he gave the game a fair shake and based his article on what he believed to be the truth. Whether you agree with him or not has absolutely nothing to do with journalistic value and everything to do with your own personal bias.

Basically, if you don't like reviews being semi-analytical pieces that are, by design, colored by the personal feelings of the author, I suggest you don't read reviews at all. Fact sheets are probably more your style.

It has nothing to do with personal bias. His review was a sloppy review. Why? Becuase his responces to many of the complaints about the inaccuracies of the review were to say "you misunderstood me" or "that's not what I meant". As a writer it's your responcibility to make sure what you are writing is clear in it's meaning to the intended audiance. Writing something like "Ryzom was released earlier this year in Europe, so it's surprising that the game is still missing so many promised features". Is a misleading statement. If he had taken the time to read that statement as his intended audiance is going to read it, then it would of never been in the article in the first place.

He also first responded by saying that statement had no bearing on his review at all. Well if that is the case, then why is it in the review? If something doesn't relate to the subject at hand then it has no business in the peice of writing.

The real reason why his review lacks journalistic value isn't becuase his review is a negative one. It's because the misleading statements and incorrect information will have a negative effect on the game. Basically the reader will walk away from that review having negative thoughts about the game based upon things that are not true.

I'm sorry if you don't agree with me, but the science of critical thinking backs up my reasoning. It's very clearly stated that an opinion must be based upon facts to be valid. In the case of this article there are many opinions formed upon things that simply are not true. So therefore those opinions are invalid.

What's missing? Real quests, story, characters everywhere which contribute to the backstory, characters with variety, low level dungeons, instanced quests/missions, and tons else... Not to mention that I do not see any real innovations which advance the gameplay at all.

First theres is no dungeons in ryzom, this is a PvP game not PvE.

About everything missing :
Many things are not in yet, i know its frustrating but the games has great potentiel, would you rater see it die like many mmorpg that were supposed to come out in 2004-2005. I think Nevrax desserve patience and comprenhesion more then any other in the mmorpg market.

Well, all the ones I've played you could jump. Frankly not a big problem, till you see you can't get up that 2 inch cliff that any normal person could skip over in stride. It's used to create barriers of travel, and was properly pointed out. I do view it as unnaturally limiting.

Personally i couldnt care less. I just think that its inapporpriate for a review of an mmorpg, since most of them are the same (EQ, FFXI, Lineage 2, etc....)

So far the whole system to me is still a huge question mark. I'm an experienced gamer, have been trying to do some reading on how it works, but I just have a great big, HUH? As he desribed novel, but difficult to grasp for less research intensive players

There is a lack of information but nothing you wont be able to learn by asking on the main chat.

So he did it wrong... You did it right...

Im the best /sarcasm

His point was that this system inherently supports kill stealers efforts. He pointed out that xp in groups was split, but that it made kill stealing a problem. Frankly, the population numbers are what make kill stealing not seem to be an issue at all. If there were more players, I might notice this more.

Try to steel a kill youll see. You wont gain any exp nor get any loot... whats the point then ?

Duel - Again, every other game (almost)

Name one ? Open PvP games are common, i havent seen duels (wich prevent newbie killing and such plague) anywhere else.

I wont comment about CoH.... anyway I havent played for long enough... about the time the reviewer took in Ryzom

trosky wrote:First theres is no dungeons in ryzom, this is a PvP game not PvE.

About everything missing :
Many things are not in yet, i know its frustrating but the games has great potentiel, would you rater see it die like many mmorpg that were supposed to come out in 2004-2005. I think Nevrax desserve patience and comprenhesion more then any other in the mmorpg market.




Personally i couldnt care less. I just think that its inapporpriate for a review of an mmorpg, since most of them are the same (EQ, FFXI, Lineage 2, etc....)




There is a lack of information but nothing you wont be able to learn by asking on the main chat.




Im the best /sarcasm



Try to steel a kill youll see. You wont gain any exp nor get any loot... whats the point then ?



Name one ? Open PvP games are common, i havent seen duels (wich prevent newbie killing and such plague) anywhere else.

I wont comment about CoH.... anyway I havent played for long enough... about the time the reviewer took in Ryzom

I really didn't see this game as a PvP game, maybe I'm missing something.

As for Jumping, EQ, DAOC, COH (but this one's a given, given the topic)

Duels? I'll name 2, the 2 most popular... EQ, DAOC (with far deeper PvP from what I can tell)

The real question is does a review have an obligation to get to endgame before writing a review? How many hours does that take in a balanced MMORPG? Is the reviewer supposed to give up life, spend 2 month playing the game, and then write the review?

First, this puts the review 2 months late as is, second, that magazine better pay a buttload of money for that 1 review. No, I think a reviewer has an obligation to put in a good amout of time... 20-40 hours perhaps, in most MMORPGS this will not get you anywhere close to endgame.

IMHO, he has to review the game as is. If its no fun at the low end there's very little chance I'll stick around for the high end game. I see no low end content in this game, I cannot comment on high end content. I'm never going to get there. From my experience, despite what people argue, the difference between low end and high end games are generally very little. If you're having fun in the beginning you'll have fun in the end. There are certainly exceptions, DAOC being completely different once you RvR full time, but in my experience core gameplay essentially stays the same.

Others have pointed out misleasing or inaccurate things in the review. These do make the game seem much worse than it really is. I don't have a real problem with the body of the review, it points out some valid issues. My biggest issue is with the score that got given. That score may be how he feels the game is, or he grades games hard.

People do compare games. 5.6 pretty much says the game is horrible and when you compare that to other games on the market, it really looks bad. My instinct with most of these mmo's is that they are very much alike. Some are better in some areas and worse than others, but I'd not say that one game is 8.3 and another is a 5. It's shades of Grey. Ryzom deserves a much more competative score with other mmo's that is shaded by its particular strengths and weakneses.

The reviewer talked about his like for SWG. Objectivly, SWG had some wonderful things that were very inovative. It also had some things that were darn broken and are still broken. I don't see Ryzom any more flawed or better than SWG, yet its score is vastly different.

That's exactly it - the review is not objective. I had to play Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg once. I hated that game. My god that was an awful experience. But, if I were to rate the game, I would have to rate it very highly. If I were to review it I would have to give it a lot of credit. The game is well made, good graphics, good play control. The only real downside I could give it is that the camera sometimes spins around in just a way to make you fall off something, and I would have to warn that some of the bonus features require a Game Boy (I think they're cool features, but some people hate with a passion when you have to have an accessory to unlock stuff).

See, just because I despise the game with every fiber of my being, that doesn't mean it's not a good game. Annoying to me? Yes. Very. OMG IF I HAVE TO HEAR ANOTHER CHICKEN CLUCK IN THE MENU...ahem.

Now, if I were to write a review, and if I were to say something in it that was inaccurate, I would take responsibility for that, and I would retract the statement and apologize to my readers, but that's just me...

"They're gonna' fix that! It's not fair he revewed it like that! It's a lie!" Bull.

So it's the reviewer's fault he reviewed the game as-it-(was)-right-now? As opposed to what we've been told it might be after six months of patches?

tmmamoru wrote:"They're gonna' fix that! It's not fair he revewed it like that! It's a lie!" Bull.

So it's the reviewer's fault he reviewed the game as-it-(was)-right-now? As opposed to what we've been told it might be after six months of patches?

Go read the mmorpgh.com review of Ryzom. That review points out faults with the game, many of the same ones, but you come away feeling that you read a much more balanced reveiw of the game.

kisedd wrote:Go read the mmorpgh.com review of Ryzom. That review points out faults with the game, many of the same ones, but you come away feeling that you read a much more balanced reveiw of the game.

But that was before Patch1, I would like to know if any reviews are going to revisit the game after our original deluge of support prior to the Patch mess. I for 1 would not be such a blind flagbearer as before.....