Ryzom

eriu3 wrote:don't agree with the above statement, a character wipe, removes everything remember including your precious npc armours, believe it or not the old NPCs were still a challenge, bar Aen. Lixie was hard, only a few sets survive to this day,the game just isnt about NPC clothes, what about all the champion, exterminator,elder of atys titles that would be lost, thelevels, the rare crafted items, the rare npc bought items from ep 1 and 2, the irreplacable items that were given as gifts from homins that no longer roam atys.

on a different forum Kaetemi states that if the game goes open source he would "fix the ring", how can he do that without finding out the problems with it? and i bet if the game is bought out by a company he'l document all of his findings and submit it to the new owners.

Think of it as exploiting if you want, I see it as Kaetemi spending his own time helping to progress the ring in a possitive direction, ie, fix it.

When he came on here and gave us all knowledge of how to add titles to NPCs in the ring for example, no-one jeered "eek exploit", when he finds bugs however that lets people spawn items, "eek he's exploiting!!"

Ok,

First of all, i said Character WIPE not DELETE - so your names would stay.. they are YOUR characters. All titles such as BETA titles (Elder of Atys), and the Server Merge titles (Wayfarer?) etc etc would reamin.. they are YOURS.
As for special event type items.. they can stay as well (Candy Canes, etc).

BUT the point being is you will be back to the Level 1 in all, your dapper count will be zero, and all looted/crafted/etc stuff GONE!

I could write alot here about it... be seriously the silliest thing ever done was to rebalance true BOSSESS (the closest thing to a RAID Atys has) and allow the previous loot to stay.... (we can argue what should/could have been subsidised to those who have it... till the cows come home..)


As for Kaetemi; he gets 110% of my support for trying to improve the game... but the whole point has nothing to do with finding such bugs/exploits.. it has to do with using them.

If he wants to decompile the code, document it all, then my hat goes off big time.... but to either use himself or spread word to others who use / and or spread word and how to exploit these bug thus making them hacks...


I never once attacked or named anyone behind this...

but based on what has come to light... maybe someone can explain if this is possible.


Manda / Dolak make great fire resit jewels.. good for dropping lixie in 14 minutes like GoJ did at least 5 times with me....

SOOOOOOOO

how bout i make a ring scenarios with lots of Manda's and Dolaks on instant repop... farm the mats and make the entire guild fire resit jewels ???

Good idea? or Exploit???



So for everyone here that whats to argue finding bugs and documenting vs using such bugs (exploits) in a LIVE system..... lets move on from NPC armour and start thinking of all the different things the Ring offers that fast tracks any kind of achievement....


I think anyone with half a brain will see....
The argument was lost before it started..

EXPLOITS ARE HACKS and people who use them ARE CHEATERS!!

Have a good day

wakatack69 wrote:how bout i make a ring scenarios with lots of Manda's and Dolaks on instant repop... farm the mats and make the entire guild fire resit jewels ???

There is no loot in the ring.

wakatack69 wrote: If someone wants to decompile the code, document it all, then my hat goes off big time.... but to either use himself or spread word to others who use / and or spread word and how to exploit these bug thus making them hacks...

Alot of bugs are found and reported from decent ppl engaging in this kind of thing. Fortunately in ryzom "hacks" have been almost non-existent.

What has happened recently should ideally have been caught and stopped with some sort of announcement and a very heavy penalty to anyone caught.

Unfortunately circumstances aren't helping things in that department.

wakatack69 wrote: but based on what has come to light... maybe someone can explain if this is possible.


Manda / Dolak make great fire resit jewels.. good for dropping lixie in 14 minutes like GoJ did at least 5 times with me....

SOOOOOOOO

how bout i make a ring scenarios with lots of Manda's and Dolaks on instant repop... farm the mats and make the entire guild fire resit jewels ???

Good idea? or Exploit???

Not possable, mobs dont drop usable craft items in the ring. easier to go and kill cratcha in the void.

Also you only need 45-50% fire protection, since your max absorbs is around 1500, well just shy usually, and lixies bombs hit for 3000+ anything over 1500 is ignored.

The bombs cannot be resisted either

though im sure you know that anyways
(i know you were just using that as an example )

wakatack69 wrote: I think anyone with half a brain will see....
The argument was lost before it started..

EXPLOITS ARE HACKS and people who use them ARE CHEATERS!!

Have a good day

Exploits are exploits, hacks probably fall more under the category of 3rd party programs that interfere with the memory

Still it is cheating none the less ..

kaetemi wrote:There is no loot in the ring.

If there is no loot..... how did NPC Armour/Crystals/Plan get generated from the ring?? (sorry dont answer)

Anyway.... even before this smear campaign happened...
I had decided i would only return if everything (not unique/event earnt) was wipped.... and a fresh start taken.


its sad, cause although this is not my first ****... as a Open Beta user, with a 2004 account.. who did my time in DCP (Sorry Final) hehe

I cant find a game as good as this...

But with the amount of tainted history and divided community.... i cant enjoy it half as much as i once did...


Anyway....

I think the most important part now, is if someone has the courtesty to give us updates...

i appreciate the privatacy/secretacy and conspiracy laws out there prevent lots beeing said... but seriously... surely we can be told there are 1 or more serious bids and currently there are processess happening to finalise a potential new owner/operator...

I dont need to know, nor care who it is or any of that guff..
but the servers should have been turned off more then a week ago based on Marjo's post.. so either the liquidators have gone soft... or the game is about ot be saved.....

But worse then how this current state of affairs was suddenly dumped on us... this once again, lack of communication is CRUEL.

And believe me... as a person who went through the Nevrax collapse.... there will not be any where near enough players to make Ryzom viable if someone official doesnt speak up ASAP....

wakatack69 wrote:If there is no loot..... how did NPC Armour/Crystals/Plan get generated from the ring?? (sorry dont answer)

A huge amount of bugs with one single "officially tested and released" feature that came with the ring.

So for everyone here that whats to argue finding bugs and documenting vs using such bugs (exploits) in a LIVE system..... lets move on from NPC armour and start thinking of all the different things the Ring offers that fast tracks any kind of achievement....

I think anyone with half a brain will see....
The argument was lost before it started..

EXPLOITS ARE HACKS and people who use them ARE CHEATERS!!

Well it's hard to disagree with that. Hacking to get anything out of the Ring is cheating and must be punished. Very severely, considering it makes rare and valuable items common and worthless. The thing about finding the flaws in the Ring is to find the bugs and fix them or report them directly to the Devs. If they are documented and public, CSRs will most probably (certainly) have a list of them and it will be very clear that being caught using any of them will result in an instant permaban.

The message being that, there's a bug, we know it is there, there is NO merit in using it and, until it is fixed, those who use them shall burn in shame. On the other hand, those who want to contribute in fixing them and submitting a solution to the devs would be completely free to do so, as long as they don't use that knowledge in a harmful manner.

Yes, learning that some people are hacking and cheating is highly disappointing, to not say sickening. It does harm the community's reputation. But generalizing would be as stupid as hacking. We are not all cheaters. We do not approve hacking content in any form, especially not content that is rare or requires hard work and dedication to get, an this, even if the world might end tomorrow.

But I don't think that people who did earn and deserve the product of their accomplishments through the normal ways should be penalized because of the acts of a careless minority that showed no respect for the work it took to get those rewards. I only think that it would instead justify the necessity of finding and fixing those bugs even more so it doesn't ever happen again.

*Eats a marshmallow while shaking her head sadly*

wakatack69 wrote: First of all, i said Character WIPE not DELETE - so your names would stay.. they are YOUR characters. All titles such as BETA titles (Elder of Atys), and the Server Merge titles (Wayfarer?) etc etc would reamin.. they are YOURS.

Personally (subjective opinion) my levels are an intrinsic part of my character, and reflects the time I have invested in game. A big no, from my part, but just my view. This would be a major stopper for me but I also tend to think that potential buyers would be reluctant of actually carrying such a drastic thing, which may severely impact the number of current subscribers.

As for Kaetemi; he gets 110% of my support for trying to improve the game... If he wants to decompile the code, document it all, then my hat goes off big time....

I'm afraid I disagree, sorry but no. And I am really sorry, my "hacker side" (*) understands it but no matter how noble his (generally speaking, not referring to a particular player) research is and his goals are, most EULAs explicitly forbid decompiling, reverse engineering etc. In the particular case of networked apps, it is even clearly stated "You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running Ryzom and on any Ryzom Services or Nevrax Services. etc." which goes beyond the simple and classical "You may not exploit any bugs in Ryzom and you may not communicate the existence of exploitable bugs (either directly or through public posting) to any other user of Ryzom but report it ".

In this particular case, it is clearly stated. use the Game for the sole purpose of playing Ryzom, and/or Ryzom Ring under legitimate conditions via an authorized and fully-paid account or as part of a valid trial period. All other uses of the account or of the Game are forbidden. In particular, you may under no circumstances reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software program(s) of which the Game consists .

Let me be clear, you may or may not agree with the EULA. You may request it be changed, but as long as it is valid, it should be enforced. It's the law (tm) . Gathering knowledge, trying things, looking at the inner files and systems, inspecting the scripting capabilities of Ryzom and streching the limits, is not *bad* per-se (I tend to agree is the *use* what counts), but it fits in the "under no circumstances" and I think its is similar to "hacking" (in its purest form). Law in a lots of countries forbids it, even if you were just checking a system to report it later the rightful owner. Despite how noble this RobinHoodesque action is, only official devs "should" be doing these kind of things, and usually, they do it with devs accounts and strictly decoupling playing accounts and devs accounts. As far as I know, no player has been "blessed" with the right to stretch the system. If you do this at home and report exclusively to devs (as a few players do), and you improve the game, no benefits.... I see it's hard to denounce, and I fully understnad why a lot of players see no harm here. But although this has not clearly been the case here, it is quite obvious that players like to showoff these findings, be recognized and so on. Once it goes open source, feel free. I may even "jump-in" too but now, the line is not clear. I am aware lots of findings are improving and "workign around" limitations, but I guess it takes a lot of self control to do this work and not "show off" in any way, be by implicitly showing / sharing your knowledge, hinting it "it is possible, but I can't tell you how" and so on.

In summary, I would prefer to consider it a closed system. As nice and rewarding "hacking" is (*), a unified, uniform, clear policy should be applied to avoid.... what happened.


Thanks for Reading,

yours,
Ani

(*) In the sense of "A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, enjoying the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations, gathering knowledge" and similar "romantic" definitions.

xtarsia wrote:I would hazard a guess that anyone posting in this thread isnt responsible for the 'outbreak' havent made any actions, and are certainly not defending blatant cheaters.

Stop being stupid please, theres a MASSIVE difference between those that cheat and abuse, and those that are simply curious and like to keep to themselves without disturbing the peace.

Not everyone who has a thirst for knowledge and understanding is evil.

Its not a case of thinking others arent smart enough either, so stop being so judgmental please? Its a case of having different interests.

You enjoy playing with toys and some enjoy taking them apart and putting them back together again.

Blame what is probably 1 or 2 individuals who obviously havent spoken here, for this mess.

They should be removed from the game.

There is no difference between those who cheat and abuse, and those that are curious and want to keep to themselves without disturbing the peace. Sorry Xtarsia. If anyone wants to tinker with game files to make things they have no right to they are breaking the rules. It's that simple.

At the risk of you calling me stupid again, what is the difference between someone who tinkers with game files and a "blatant cheater"? What of those people who accept hacked items of someone else who they know to be cheating?

I've seen people with a CSR staff that shouldn't have one, unlimited supplies of fireworks and now NPC armours of higher than the q1 statement made earlier. What is the point of posting names though when they all come back somehow, regardless of lifetime bans or not.

At least a char wipe would have almost the same effect as new content, but nonetheless I somehow don't like that kind of substitute.

And should there be another exploit that whoever (for a certain time) can't control would you have another wipe then? So we're ending up with chars that are basically limited in time?

One problem solved doesn't mean there won't be another to pop up.

Although I love Ryzom dearly, loosing my hard-earned levels (most even without cats...) and having the thought in mind that this could happen anytime again would make me looking for a kind of a more permanent game.

I guess the current issue could be solved if there was still anybody that gets paid for solving this kind of problems.

cheers from Leanon

embrel

Yes it's cheating no denying that, how the devs / GMs react however will be interesting, will they do their usual thing and just ban people for it OR actually fix the problem?

This wouldn't be a problem if the game was designed better, i play tons of other games and none are so easy to hack, cheat and bot, ryzom is a very complex game maybe so much so that the devs have left so many holes to be picked at.