Ryzom

praha wrote:Sadly Time + Effort do not equal Sacrifice. They are not even close.

If you had taken a different approach on this I'm sure you would have had a lot more supporters. Neutrality is not a faction, nor will it ever be. Titles thus far have been a reward for Leveling (time, effort & sacrifice of other activities) or participating in events. One does nothing to be neutral once at +0/+0 Fame. Does no missions, kills no tribes, nothing.

Let me put it this way. I support you 100% (and I'm sure a majoirty of the shards would too) IF you want to go the Trytonist route. No dice on the Neutral front. Neutrality requires no work/effort and should continue to get 0 rewards.

In the game currently they're the same thing. Trytonist doesn't cut it either in this context.

You're right though, time + effort (whacking tribes a few times) is in no way equal to the sacrifice made to remain neutral. No PvP tag, assuming some neutrals would want it, no 250 or PR teleports, no special titles, much less chance of getting or keeping an outpost, having to find a justification to participate in factional events in order to gain access to content...

You're right, it in NO way compares. I revise my demand from just titles to include titles AND a giant illuminated golden hat that shouts 'I am better than you' at Kipee volume every five seconds and magically turns any factioned player within an in-game kilometre radius into a yubo.

That would seem more commensurate with the sacrifice.

katriell wrote:Shall we start a betting pool on when this thread reaches the 10+ pages mark?

sprite wrote: o/ 1k dappers on 'by the end of the day'

Damnit I was wrong... only 9 pages

sprite wrote:Damnit I was wrong... only 9 pages

It was only 7 or 8 at the end of the day.
You owe everyone on Atys 1,000 dapper.

grimjim wrote:You owe everyone on Atys 1,000 dapper.

Didn't see anyone except me (and Jelathnia) take the bet

grimjim wrote:
You're right though, time + effort (whacking tribes a few times) is in no way equal to the sacrifice made to remain neutral.

Do you have any Tribe, Faction or Civ fame above 80? I only ask becuase it is more than a few times. The (time + effort) of working any of those to 80, 90 or 100 is not something you can do in a few hrs. That is the crux of my discussion. It is not something you do in a day unlike getting +0/+0 fame. The work needed to get +0/+0 does not warrant a title when you compare it the amount of work needed for +Kara or +Kami fame. I never hit those silly Ep 2 guards for any of my Faction fame. I did it the old fashioned way by Killing the Kuild and other Tribes. Your sacrifice is a choice you opted for. You want to play outside the physics of the game that Nevrax dictated, then you get the reward that Nevrax awarded you. This game rewards effort, no lack thereof.

I would also like to see multiple choices for titles ie kami initiate, kami follower, ect instead of just kami disciple.



The question I think is, does it do harm to offer titles that cover a range of involvement - including neutrality?

Homin is not neutral specific - it says what they are, not their allegiance or lack of.

We can take the argument further and say that the homin title is unnesessary (we are all homin and by default we didn't do _anything_ to gain it) So we should only have refugee until/if we claim citizenship. (not including skill titles as they are not the center of the discussion)

The issue is not with Neutrality. The objection is regarding what is needed to obtain said title.

praha wrote:Do you have any Tribe, Faction or Civ fame above 80?

It is not something you do in a day unlike getting +0/+0 fame. The work needed to get +0/+0 does not warrant a title when you compare it the amount of work needed for +Kara or +Kami fame.

Your sacrifice is a choice you opted for. You want to play outside the physics of the game that Nevrax dictated, then you get the reward that Nevrax awarded you. This game rewards effort, no lack thereof.

No, I don't. You know why? Its another part of the whole sacrifice thing! More reason to get something in exchange.

Recently one of our guys briefly left the guild to grind fame and get TP tickets. It took him about a day to get his fame, and get his tickets and get back.

My sacrifice is my choice, your sacrifice of TIME is your choice. Arguably what I sacrifice is a lot more and the reward should be commensurate.

Neutrality, of various kinds, is supported by lore and by the fact that I can mechanically choose to be neutral. You'd get anything that was given as well, provided you remained neutral, so its not like you'd miss out.

One concern that arises: as far as I know, titles have been, till now, a "get once and keep forever" feature. If titles (and glowing yubo-forming hats) are given tied to something dynamic, are titles revoked as well, I guess?
I would answer 99% "yes, of course" -- but I remember that in EP2, devs seemed not to account for players switching sides and it was a bit of a disaster

iphdrunk wrote:One concern that arises: as far as I know, titles have been, till now, a "get once and keep forever" feature. If titles (and glowing yubo-forming hats) are given tied to something dynamic, are titles revoked as well, I guess?
I would answer 99% "yes, of course" -- but I remember that in EP2, devs seemed not to account for players switching sides and it was a bit of a disaster

Not from our point of view
*counts dappers*