Ryzom

grimjim wrote:Massive doesn't have to mean enormous, it just means a lot of players acting within the same world, so long as that's more people than go on RTS or FPS servers you're probably safe calling it an MMORPG. Even Neverwinter is arguably (and more so than GW or DDO) an MMORPG and that's pretty limited in numbers at one time.

I think more lands would be a mistake, while the game is growing the lands are already big and there's a definite bias towards one particular race making the others seem thinly spread by comparison. Add more lands - of significant size - and the playerbase will be so thinly spread the game will seem far more empty than it actually is.

Quests? Hell no. Encyclopaedia stuff and missions that make sense to be repeatable? Better live events? Sure.

I'm still intensely dubious on the whole Kitin Lair thing, it seems like it could be another mistake like the other 'normal' MMO content. Some polish on the OPs would be nice and then moving forward with similar 'toy' content to the Ring would still, IMO, be best practice. Trying to do a full production of Tommy when you only have a banjo isn't going to go too well, Deliverance on the other hand...

At this point I think we will have to disagree. You can be doubtful of the Kitin Lair all you want. The truth is that it's not something you would enjoy anyway. I see it will do nothing but add some much badly needed content to the game.

raynes wrote:Sorry your wrong. SWG never had over 300K subscribers.
http://www.mmorpgchart.com/Chart2.html

Pre-wow, that’s still a hell of allot.

Maybe my #s are fuzzy...so what. Sue me.

You entire argument is that "Massive means millions".. Your wrong lol.

If you notice, before the bomb dropped, all the subscriber numbers basically top off around 300k.

So i guess all of those were flops also.

Besides , its the niches that will win the day... Not the ones who try to follow in WOW's footsteps (and fail, because it cant be recreated).

Pre-wow, that’s still a hell of allot.

Maybe my #s are fuzzy...so what. Sue me.

You entire argument is that "Massive means millions".. Your wrong lol.

If you notice, before the bomb dropped, all the subscriber numbers basically top off around 300k.

So i guess all of those were flops also.

Besides , its the niches that will win the day... Not the ones who try to follow in WOW's footsteps (and fail, because it cant be recreated).

Really dont care

truce1 wrote:You entire argument is that "Massive means millions".. Your wrong lol.

I don't think Raynes means that our servers should be up in the millions. However, the English server is probably only around 2000 people (not including RoS... and being generous), nothing close to what Nevrax needs to it to continue keeping the servers up, developing the game, marketing it, employing Jolt for CSR stuff, etc.
Its not "we need a WoW numbers and we need it now"... its "we need to add another 0 to that 2000 people."
As freddeh pointed out, he left the game out of boredom. There really isn't anything to do after a while. And thats what will happen with those joining the game now. They'll play, get tired of the same stuff, and go away. R2 will help in retaining them for a bit, but even that will get old (just like OPs did). There needs to be new content for those not interested in the Ring. The kitin lair is a step in the right direction. Just like the pvp content, if you go one way, you'll need to add something the other.

I was under the impression that the dev team admitted that the ring tools were too primative for them to use to create new content and that they would either have to create more powerful ones or simply go with their old method of doing things. Has that changed?

I love Ryzom. I really do. I think it has massive potential. but I wonder who does it more harm... the people who criticize it and point out its failings or the fanbois who sit and say "all is well!" and refuse to change their view of what the game once was. The brutal honesty is that unless the population goes up significantly (I don't mean millions... & Rushin, I log in 3-4 times a week. I just don't really grind anything anymore. No need for cats. I chat, I go pvp, thats about it.) that Nevrax is faced with some serious problems financially. The company is already on a skeleton staff and they've admitted that they are not out of bankrupcy. Whether you love the game or wish to see it changed, you have to admit that the subscription numbers have to go up considerably.

totnkopf wrote:I don't think Raynes means that our servers should be up in the millions. However, the English server is probably only around 2000 people (not including RoS... and being generous), nothing close to what Nevrax needs to it to continue keeping the servers up, developing the game, marketing it, employing Jolt for CSR stuff, etc.
Its not "we need a WoW numbers and we need it now"... its "we need to add another 0 to that 2000 people."
As freddeh pointed out, he left the game out of boredom. There really isn't anything to do after a while. And thats what will happen with those joining the game now. They'll play, get tired of the same stuff, and go away. R2 will help in retaining them for a bit, but even that will get old (just like OPs did). There needs to be new content for those not interested in the Ring. The kitin lair is a step in the right direction. Just like the pvp content, if you go one way, you'll need to add something the other.

I was under the impression that the dev team admitted that the ring tools were too primative for them to use to create new content and that they would either have to create more powerful ones or simply go with their old method of doing things. Has that changed?

I love Ryzom. I really do. I think it has massive potential. but I wonder who does it more harm... the people who criticize it and point out its failings or the fanbois who sit and say "all is well!" and refuse to change their view of what the game once was. The brutal honesty is that unless the population goes up significantly (I don't mean millions... & Rushin, I log in 3-4 times a week. I just don't really grind anything anymore. No need for cats. I chat, I go pvp, thats about it.) that Nevrax is faced with some serious problems financially. The company is already on a skeleton staff and they've admitted that they are not out of bankrupcy. Whether you love the game or wish to see it changed, you have to admit that the subscription numbers have to go up considerably.

Put that way. I can agree.
I think the best thing to do, instead of feeding this thread... Is get working on our rings and make some Great scenarios then.

Tell your friends... ETC..

Thats all we can do...other than ***** at each other

/love

totnkopf wrote:Whether you love the game or wish to see it changed, you have to admit that the subscription numbers have to go up considerably.

And here we have it.

The question is... what can we do? I understand that Nevrax isn't my company, and I won't make lots of money if the game does well, but I won't have a game to play if it tanks. So I find myself trying to think of ways I can help. Personally, I believe that if some of you love the game and the people who play it... we should all be thinking of ways to direct some new people to the game.

I know some of you are reading this and thinking "what a dork" or some other more colorful name, but I am serious. Ryzom has a lot of potential, but it will never be fully realized if Nevrax is developing the way I live... paycheck to paycheck. I have already decided that I am going to write up a piece about my experiences with the game thus far and post it anywhere that even remotely relate to MMORPG's.

I am willing to do whatever I can with the time and resources I have to help boost the number of new players (particularly mainland). The Ryzom community has been absolutely wonderful to me so far, and perhaps I feel I owe something to it. What's an hour of my time writing something up, and a few minutes a day to post it a few places.

It's nothing compared to the kindness I've been shown, and the potential long-term enjoyment Ryzom offers.

truce1 wrote: You entire argument is that "Massive means millions"..

I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

totnkopf wrote:I don't think Raynes means that our servers should be up in the millions. However, the English server is probably only around 2000 people (not including RoS... and being generous), nothing close to what Nevrax needs to it to continue keeping the servers up, developing the game, marketing it, employing Jolt for CSR stuff, etc.
Its not "we need a WoW numbers and we need it now"... its "we need to add another 0 to that 2000 people."
As freddeh pointed out, he left the game out of boredom. There really isn't anything to do after a while. And thats what will happen with those joining the game now. They'll play, get tired of the same stuff, and go away. R2 will help in retaining them for a bit, but even that will get old (just like OPs did). There needs to be new content for those not interested in the Ring. The kitin lair is a step in the right direction. Just like the pvp content, if you go one way, you'll need to add something the other.

I was under the impression that the dev team admitted that the ring tools were too primative for them to use to create new content and that they would either have to create more powerful ones or simply go with their old method of doing things. Has that changed?

I love Ryzom. I really do. I think it has massive potential. but I wonder who does it more harm... the people who criticize it and point out its failings or the fanbois who sit and say "all is well!" and refuse to change their view of what the game once was. The brutal honesty is that unless the population goes up significantly (I don't mean millions... & Rushin, I log in 3-4 times a week. I just don't really grind anything anymore. No need for cats. I chat, I go pvp, thats about it.) that Nevrax is faced with some serious problems financially. The company is already on a skeleton staff and they've admitted that they are not out of bankrupcy. Whether you love the game or wish to see it changed, you have to admit that the subscription numbers have to go up considerably.

Exactly. I never said nor did I imply that Ryzom needs WoW subscriber numbers or even number in the 100,000 range (though I am sure that is what they would be thrilled with).

They do need to get 40K or 50K regular subscribers to make the game function like it should. To do that they need to do things differently than they have. Part of that is to embrace things that make other mmo's interesting. As you said the Kitin Lair is a step in the right direction. Lets just hope they keep on that path.

truce1 wrote:Put that way. I can agree.
I think the best thing to do, instead of feeding this thread... Is get working on our rings and make some Great scenarios then.

Tell your friends... ETC..

Thats all we can do...other than ***** at each other

/love

Can't work on those while at work. There is nothing wrong with a healthy discussion like this.

raynes wrote:There is nothing wrong with a healthy discussion like this.

admit it, you comign back had nothing to do with the game. you were missing the forums!

raynes wrote:At this point I think we will have to disagree. You can be doubtful of the Kitin Lair all you want. The truth is that it's not something you would enjoy anyway. I see it will do nothing but add some much badly needed content to the game.

It's PvE content rather than PvP, that's a step back towards sanity, however, raids in all other games just end up a horrible grind.

Worst Case Scenario
--------------------
Kitin nest is a 'phat lewt' scenario with better weapons and armour than crafters can make being dished out for uber-bug killing and other shenanigans. This results in it being camped and exploited worse than Aen by the same usual suspects who then employ this superior gear to further throw the factions/races off balance contributing to the positive feedback loop that is throwing the whole game off whack.

Best Case Scenario
------------------
Rather than actual items the nest is rewarded with crafting patterns that existing crafters can use. Maybe these have some slight inherent bonus when crafted with special materials (to keep their numbers limited) maybe they just look cool, same with the weapons. The nest perhaps provides a non-PvP way to access the special materials that are otherwise provided by outposts, thus providing an alternate PvE revenue stream for that content and material and helping, hopefully, to redress some of the balance.

I'm just worried it'll be more like the worst than the best. At least a Kitin hive makes sense to be repeatable.

Quick Reminder:
When taking into account how many people are playing Ryzom you have to remember the German and French servers and, by all accounts, the French server is much bigger than the English one in terms of numbers.