Ryzom

philu wrote:Hmmm well, not surprised to see this thread has decended into yet another pointless PvP which faction did what "debate".

Blah blah you're bad.

Blah blah no you're badder.

Blah blah propoganda.

Blah blah counter propoganda.

Blah blah blah.



The only vicious circle is this pointless never ending "we're so much better than you are" debate that surfaces everytime anyone makes the mistake of mentioning PvP or OPs. Maybe one day you'll give it a rest but I seriously doubt it.

*hugs*
<3 you too

iphdrunk wrote:I'm unsure about this and imho a generalization. This can be true from an absolute point of view (counting the number of players), but maybe not in relative terms to the population. Also, note that there were Kami guilds very PvP oriented, I may mention, CP, DCP, Infinity. Some of those left out of boredom, simply.

I just don't agree with "Karavan are more aggressive and PvP oriented" and "Kami are..." : biased, unfounded (show the numbers) and generalizing.

Yep, there were kami pvp guilds, Infinity being one of them. And yes we left out of boredom. We had looked forward to OPs for a long while, but they turned out to be boring in themselves. They rarely changed hands and if there was a battle it was a matter of both factions pouring out and simply spewing spells at each other. Many of us had hoped for guild v guild battles, challenges, etc, but there weren't any. In my mind it was a population issue. Triple the current population and you might see some interesting politics going on. Fighting among factions, OPs changing hands somewhat regularly, etc. As it is... its boring. And thats coming from an Infinity... the guardians of the Void... Don't recall ever having to defend either of them. Simply watched the GH fill up with cats.
Now we have the opposite problem... there are battles, but no people, which leads to the same problem. Showing up and getting beat down by a 2:1 (or worse 3:1) ratio is boring. No chance of winning, wear and tear on my gear and the constant gloating/taunting in region chat is just a waste of my time (I've also noticed that many people who now are gloating or generally putting down the kami were people who remained silent when the factions were closer to even. just an observation).

Is there a solution? not really. The kara will always be larger simply because of the manner in which people choose their chars. Matis is by far the most popular. tryker and Fyros are relatively equal. last comes the zorai, which is by far picked the least. From that base, there will be more pvpers simply because there are more people total.
Add to the equation the fact that nearly all kara guilds now have an OP, and are thus leveling faster, the people who wanted to join the winning side, and the recent exodus of Kami players and you get the unbalance we have today.

and its only going to get worse with spires.

Ryzoms PvP system in general could use some work. Having gone off and played other games, I realize just how lacking the system is here. Its a matter of who presses their skill first really (or whos net is faster really). There is no skill, per say, its simply a matter of having the levels.

and on a side not regarding that boredom that Ani mentioned. I play SWG with many of the Infinity members. Some of them asked about my recent return to Ryzom and if it was worth coming back to have look around. While I would have loved to told them to re-sub instantly, I had to be truthful with them and tell them it wasn't worth their time or money. In the 5 months I was away, nothing has changed (save a few needed bug fixes). We left out of lack of content and the boredom it brought on... why would I tell them to come back when nothing has been done to remedy that? I'd rather they went to Silkroad and finished what we started there. Only difference there is ones Engrish, the others Franglais.

As for those commenting on the thread without contributing to it, no one said you had to read it. Its a post on the forums and chances are if its been brought up numerous times, its because its an issue. If you don't want to read it, don't. No one said you had to read it (nor post in it).

I think it's more basic than just kami/karavan.

Matis are the most common race because they are the most human like and therefore the easiest race to identify with RPing (I think you all know what I mean by RP, without getting into a debate about levels of RP).

Where as Zorai are the least human like and therefore the least commonly used race.

Being Matis and starting with 20 Karavan fame, would suggest that the normal route for a Matis is to follow the Karavan. Although I have seen Matis Kami followers.

There might be some people that choose Karavan because there's more of them but I would think that this number is quite small. I think it's more likely for the reason based on race that i've already talked about.

Perhaps one solution to the problem would be to allow players more freedom early on as to which faction/race they want to align with regardless of their starting race?

Or also, someway to make travel between the lands easier so that new players could make their way over to friends they met on the island or to play in a different kindgom other than their racial one?

Perhaps most importantly, make it much easier and quicker to gain Kami/Kara fame. It can take awhile just for a new player to go with the religion they're 'supposed' to, let alone later down the road wanting to change it for whatever reason.

I don't think the issue is so much that more PvPers or players are going Karavan because its the 'winning side' because I doubt most people when they start playing realize (unless the read the doomsayers on the message board) what the balance of power is. Its more of an issue that the two of the more populus races (Matis/tryker) start out Karavan and currently its easy for new players to get stuck as Karavan.

As well, could opening up outpost ownership to more than one guild perhaps motiviate more guilds to attack an OP, if they're all going to achieve equal, immediate benefits out of doing so?

diogynes wrote:Perhaps one solution to the problem would be to allow players more freedom early on as to which faction/race they want to align with regardless of their starting race?

Or also, someway to make travel between the lands easier so that new players could make their way over to friends they met on the island or to play in a different kindgom other than their racial one?

Perhaps most importantly, make it much easier and quicker to gain Kami/Kara fame. It can take awhile just for a new player to go with the religion they're 'supposed' to, let alone later down the road wanting to change it for whatever reason.

I don't think the issue is so much that more PvPers or players are going Karavan because its the 'winning side' because I doubt most people when they start playing realize (unless the read the doomsayers on the message board) what the balance of power is. Its more of an issue that the two of the more populus races (Matis/tryker) start out Karavan and currently its easy for new players to get stuck as Karavan.

Saying it is 'too hard' to reach other nations is a bit of a joke these days, looking back to when we didnt have level 250s all over the place, and it needed a massive organised party to travel. Now, 2 people can escort lowbies anywhere... I know I have taken strangers on grand tours on request.
trying to make the game "easier" is the wrong thing to do - IMHO.. unless you are trying to kill off the richness of Atys, boost everyone to AoDs and just have a simplistic bipolar smack-em-up game, which certainly wasnt what I signed up for.

My personal view is that it should be HARDER to join factions, requiring some serious effort and display of competence ( or assistance from guild ), before becoming an attack-dog for the 'higher powers'.

As for the supposed higher population of Matis/ Trykers, it seems every time I turn around there is a Zoraï somewhere nearby. especially on RoS. But even my own Zoraï rejects Kami hypocrisy in the hope that honest Karavan greed is less dangerous to Homins than the inhuman goals of Ma-Duk

iwojimmy wrote: trying to make the game "easier" is the wrong thing to do - IMHO.. unless you are trying to kill off the richness of Atys, boost everyone to AoDs and just have a simplistic bipolar smack-em-up game, which certainly wasnt what I signed up for.

My personal view is that it should be HARDER to join factions, requiring some serious effort and display of competence ( or assistance from guild ), before becoming an attack-dog for the 'higher powers'.

There are always improvements that can be made to ...well....anything...BUT,
Making the game Easy is the one 'enhancement' that will make me leave Ryzom.