Neutral PVP tag: [was] Kami vs Karavan vs Neutral

[grimjim]

a neutral open tag that could switch between factions would be open to exploit imo and should not be implemented.
But saying that there is no reason for there not to be a neutral pvp tag with the same restrictions as the faction tag

all three tags can attack eachother at will but can only heal in same tags makes it fair for all.

will we ever see tagged neutrals taking over yrk? lol

Not a switch, just a tag, able to attack all (including themselves) who are tagged, able to heal all, so they'd be suspect, less efficient than a faction tagged person but still capable.

As people have said, basically an 'open pvp tag' but one available to neutrals, or even to everyone!

[totnkopf]

This is possibly the most sensible thing said in the whole thread. Optional "open pvp".

so lets take the already limited number of pvpers and further split them up. How many wear their faction tags now? less than 50, I'd guess. Further splitting them up would be the downfall of pvp in this game. Now a truely open pvp system (no tags, everyone is essentially tagged) would be something that I'd approve of. I'm sure many of you would swear it'd be the "end of the game as we know it" or some other over dramatic reaction, but if this community is so 'mature' as everyone spouts it off to be then whats the problem? Everyone could be mature and pick their fights when it was appropriate, fair, etc. Then you can all RP whatever you like.

I don't see why 'neutrals' need to be pointed to the Prime Roots, duels or Outpost battles for PvP. Factioned players have those as well; how many would be content with just that and no optional PvP flag? How many willing (and I'm talking both teams consenting) would bother making a trip to the Prime Roots to settle a score? It looses credibility and immersion. I can't imagine a bunch of Kamists asking around in Yrkanis if any Karavaneers would want to go to the Prime Roots so they could 'stage' an assault or 'religious difference'. Maybe once, twice, and then it wears off because it's to much trouble.

There have been many many many PR fights that took place before the tags that required people to port down to PR to do it. They've taken place on Windermeer and on Arispotle. They involved full teams of people and they created a lot of interaction between guilds (melinoe & atys dragoons Vs Infinity for example).


It seems to me that most of the neutrals are neutral because they wanted out of pvp and things like ep 2. Do I think that the addition of 10 or so people that might pvp once in a blue moon would be worth taking the devs off something that might stop this games slow, but steady decline? nope. A temp pvp tag would be acceptable in IMO (tagged to the faction they helped for an hour), but it should be a the bottom of the list of things they add to the game.

[calel]

so lets take the already limited number of pvpers and further split them up. How many wear their faction tags now? less than 50, I'd guess. Further splitting them up would be the downfall of pvp in this game. Now a truely open pvp system (no tags, everyone is essentially tagged) would be something that I'd approve of.

Nowhere did I mention splitting anything up. Global optional pvp, not segmented, not forced flagged. How to relate this to faction skirmishes? Research who you're stalking, who has what stance? And link fame to PvPing as DT somewhere along this thread mentioned. If you fail to do your research or purposely attack someone of the wrong (or same) faction you suffer fame penalties. Nowhere would this limit the system and allow for K vs K skirmishes as they are now, if you make the system recognise 'friendly allegiances'. But the keyword is still optional.

There have been many many many PR fights that took place before the tags that required people to port down to PR to do it. They've taken place on Windermeer and on Arispotle. They involved full teams of people and they created a lot of interaction between guilds (melinoe & atys dragoons Vs Infinity for example).

I'll grant you that; but how long ago did this happen? How often? Would you still want to go back to those methods now?
Note that I wasn't talking in the example specifically about 2 or three guilds agreeing to it, but let's say 6 kamists challenging 4 karavaneers to stage the assault as if it would happen in Yrkanis. (as if they were flagged)

It seems to me that most of the neutrals are neutral because they wanted out of pvp and things like ep 2.

It doesn't seem very likely people would choose to be a neutral to avoid pvp as even as you are factioned you can choose to ignore pvp since it's all still optional. As a neutral there's just no option at all.
I'm not going to say that there won't be neutrals that would think this way, but neutrals can be neutrals for various reasons. Some because they aren't decissive yet on which side to join, some out of RP or character concept and don't fit in with the factions, some because they just don't care and others because they want to be observers.
Joining up with a faction for faction benefits yet claiming 'neutrality' is something different all togheter.

Do I think that the addition of 10 or so people that might pvp once in a blue moon would be worth taking the devs off something that might stop this games slow, but steady decline? nope. A temp pvp tag would be acceptable in IMO (tagged to the faction they helped for an hour), but it should be a the bottom of the list of things they add to the game.

We're talking again about Faction pvp here; make it global, optional and link it to fame gain/loss and allegiance and you have a solution where all sides benefit.

[aardnebb]

I'm neutral. I like PVP. Sorry Morgaine. You are making an invalid assumption.

Some of us are neutral for RP reasons not incompatible with PvP.

And I am _not_ gonna grind 30 fame one way to tag up for a job, then someone else hires me so I grind 60 fame the other way to even it out...

_That_ is just silly.

Open optional PvP tags... yeah, its the same as I called it, but neutrals able to take part in "open" pvp _optionally_ sounds great to me.

[grimjim]

so lets take the already limited number of pvpers and further split them up. How many wear their faction tags now? less than 50, I'd guess. Further splitting them up would be the downfall of pvp in this game. Now a truely open pvp system (no tags, everyone is essentially tagged) would be something that I'd approve of. I'm sure many of you would swear it'd be the "end of the game as we know it" or some other over dramatic reaction, but if this community is so 'mature' as everyone spouts it off to be then whats the problem? Everyone could be mature and pick their fights when it was appropriate, fair, etc. Then you can all RP whatever you like.

Because in that instance it only requires one immature twonk to spoil things for hundreds of others.

It seems to me that most of the neutrals are neutral because they wanted out of pvp and things like ep 2. Do I think that the addition of 10 or so people that might pvp once in a blue moon would be worth taking the devs off something that might stop this games slow, but steady decline? nope. A temp pvp tag would be acceptable in IMO (tagged to the faction they helped for an hour), but it should be a the bottom of the list of things they add to the game.

It wouldn't take long to do really though would it? Since unlike the factional ones it would have no 'special circumstances'. Sure, there's other things that need doing, RP props and clothing for example, but the thread's about this specific idea.

[totnkopf]

It wouldn't take long to do really though would it?

we're talking about Nevrax here.... take the normal amount of time it would take to do it and multiply it by 10-20. Then you're getting an idea of how long they would predict it would take. Add another 6 months to that time and you're looking at about the amount of time needed.

I'm neutral. I like PVP. Sorry Morgaine. You are making an invalid assumption.

Doubt it. I said most neutrals... just because you enjoy pvp and are neutral doesn't mean that all the rest mirror your stance. Also enjoying PvP is very different from tagging up. I know of many in game that enjoy the OP battles, but won't turn their tags on.

And I am _not_ gonna grind 30 fame one way to tag up for a job, then someone else hires me so I grind 60 fame the other way to even it out...

you chose to go neutral, so thats a choice that you make. you could easily go one side and still do the whole merc thing. As many have pointed out already, the kami are the ones who hire you so keeping the majority of the people kami wouldn't hurt 'busniess' any. If you choose to go neutral and RP the whole 'well work any side' then you accept the fact that you're going to have to grind your fame to do so.
Should it be that way? sure. You want to switch sides mid-fight? none of us can do that, so why should you? We have timers on our tags (for on and off) and can't get involved in many pvp fights because it apparently "doesn't involve us" (or so the sys info says). Like I said before, if you're wanting to switch mid fight for that double pay from the other side, then you're going to have to work for it.

[magick1]

As has been noted neutral in Ryzom simply means not of either of the factions and takes in a whole swathe of different people and motivations.

And that is why they are not a faction, they have no common goal to work for. Kami and karavan have that and are therefore factions, and hence have faction PvP flag.
Neutrals are like a herd of cats.

[vguerin]

Trytonism becomming a faction would eventually lead down to more optional FvF instead of optional PvP which wouldn't honestly change a single bit but bring more of the same excluding people of gameplay.
Why would I as a 'neutral' want to 'work' (let's face it, how many really got their fame the conventional way instead of blasting 'bugged' temple guards?) into joining a faction in order to access a major optional gamemechanic while it would completely ruin the concept and reason of existing of my character?

Many of us had the fame before temple guards were in the game, we grabbed every mission from the beginning and continued to do so. I was a huge grind...

Trytonism as some of you see it and use to presume a gameplay role would make sense to an extent... I cannot see how Trytonist would be allowed any TP's though, they would have to rewrite many things if they allow a faction of this sort if an infidel was given the same priveledges as a factionist.

If you are choosing exclusion by your gameplay, how can you keep asking for gimme's ? I try hard to see you guys stance because I am an RPer at heart, but come on here Kyerna. We have a few folks (mostly Samsara and allies) wanting to make a new set of rules under the banner of neutrality which is not universal. You guys are smarter than me surely, quit calling it neutral (because choosing a faction side isn't neutral) and give them a real bone to chew on.

Give them something to consider as more than an "I wish" type thing... I am sure they might consider it if it's playable with lore. Your current stance cannot be made to work because it's not unique nor neutral. Trytonists would not be good (but the RPer in me would think it an awesome though challenging stance) because there is no way in hades they could make that wihtout removing the TP's. Tryton is plotting against both K's for who knows what reason. Maybe to make himself a deity, maybe for the greater good of homins. That storyline is not blossomed yet...

Your not neutral if your attacking folks, your folks with an agenda... Whether it's dapper, glory or comradery... a non-neutral choose is being made.

[raven41]

Hey I agree with DT again... twice in one thread woot! *ahem* To the comment about having to grind fame as a nutral... That is pretty inacurate... A neutral does not have to grind to stay neutral... The only time that happens is if you were grinding fame... So its your own choice that is making you have to grind fame... So to say its hard work to stay neutral is quite preposterous if you ask me... Its only hard if YOU make it hard... Otherwise you can sit back and never do a mission from the first time you log on till the day you leave game(or the game dies/ends whatever comes first) and be nuetral.

PvP tags- Don't need to be changed.

[gillest]

I don't think creating a new "faction" would make the game better, especially if that enable neutral to heal and kill all.
Temporary Open PVP tag why not, or temporary faction tag in other area that OP battle would make sense tho (I can choose from both factions, if I want to change I have to wait for usual cool down timer).

It seems to me that most of the neutrals are neutral because they wanted out of pvp and things like ep 2.

Don't agree with that entirely: I wanted out of factions, not for the factions themselves but for what K/K asked us. I was brought to this lands by them yes, I owe them yes but they aren't god to me: they are powerful creatures playing with young homin beliefs by showing them powers which are not yet accessible to homins.

I do not mind PvP, OP battle and all the rest but I want to do it to help my friends homins or my friends made through the game.
Or maybe I want to pick a side today and another tomorrow to keep the balance of powers: to make sure neither K nor K get extinct for the sake of hominkind.
So yes I am neutral, yes I do like PVP (as long as its not 24/7: got some crafting to do as well )

Now, remember one thing, the neutral are not the ones who picked-choosed a side: the factioned ones did choose to follow blindly KnK, the neutrals choosed to stay fidele to homins as they have always been, not false gods

A neutral does not have to grind to stay neutral... The only time that happens is if you were grinding fame... So its your own choice that is making you have to grind fame... So to say its hard work to stay neutral is quite preposterous if you ask me...

Many of us had the fame before temple guards were in the game, we grabbed every mission from the beginning and continued to do so. I was a huge grind...

I am sorry guys but that is so innacurate that it make me laugh: you said You had fame so did we...
What you did was just push it up little bit to 60 in a few days, big deal....
I had fame also and when I decided to go neutral I had to grind more fame: say u were at 40, u grinded 20; I was at 40, I grinded -40... plus a few more probably as becoming 0 Kara doesn't necesserally mean I was 0 Kami...

So in the end, we could say that all, choosing faction or neutrality, had to grind as much so please, as Yaffles said, stop using this argument with is completely false

PR to neutrals or to factions

Having PR been allowed to Karavan when we know that Kara don't want their followers to go underground is .... not very in line with Kara teaching (I know we can debate with deeper roots or other but a good follower do not debate )
SO I am neutral, putting homin first, I do not follow Karavan or Kami teachings (tho I try not to deplete my sources), I should then have more IC rights to go PR than factionned players.
I hear already your answer: TP are given by Kara to Kara followers only: not true as I have in mainlands and Nexus..
Now, maybe the Karavan would be more happy for myself and other neutral to risk been doomed by entering PR than their followers....
As well, I enter PR to get mats which may well be sold to Kara or Kami followers so me neutral risking been doomed, risking DP and getting mats is in fact in the interest of both factions....

SO, can I have my TP back now pls so I can make more good weapons for your followers