Ryzom

mikadou wrote: I would like for there to be some kind of large, flying creature that could sometimes be seen travelling the skies over remote places. Some kind of skywhale, a rare creature that would add some awe in a place that maybe few are ever in.

Oooohyeah! *shivers*
That would be so cool too
And Cushing, you´re right. As I had a look at the Pic in higher resolution these beasts of burden realy seem to be some kind of larvae.
Maybe your theory could be combined with this wish.
The Mother of that giant larva from Yrkanis, circling the sky...
(*sings in a low voice* Mothraaaa, Mothraaaa )

As I browsed the Concept arts a little more gaian after a while I realised that there are many things that aren´t InGame yet. Some of these do look realy cool and would be truly exciting to have. And if I remember the old Devshots, of the snakelike Creatures (Lamia, Naga?) the big furry guy and the Troopers from the EII Trailer I´d realy like to see these guys implemented.
As far as I know their models are there somewhere in the Code, (thanks to an old spoiler site), but I suspect that once again they were buggy in some way and didn´t make the final cut in favor for the more "normal" Temple-Guards we have now.
*sigh* Oh, how I wish these guys were in R² *droooool*

Acridiel

A few random thoughts and comments. Some of these have been covered already, but they do perhaps bear repeating.

1. Missions. These can be a really delicate issue. When done poorly, they get to be nothing but an annoying grind, but when done well, they really can add something to a game. Going back in history a bit, Earth and Beyond managed to hit both ends of the spectrum very well. They had jobs terminals which became the most tedious grind ever imagined. However, they also had scripted missions that you got from NPC's that were a joy to do.

Therein lies the difference. If you try to generate missions procedurally (i.e. the terminal), you're very likely to get a grind. However, scripted missions can be a major plus, because they can tell a story. Just taking a random example, one E&B mission involved you looking for Olivia DeWinter's brother. To set the stage, Ms. DeWinter was the most calculating, cold hearted, CEO of a company you ever met. Her life revolved about making sure that everything ran at a profit. All of a sudden, this mission uncovered the fact that she actually did have a heart, because she was pretty badly cut up when you told her that her brother had died.

It takes a huge amount of work to create the content for these, but they can add a great deal to a game if done properly, if for no other reason than they really immerse you in the lore. Things like a Tryker mission to investigate, (and subsequently kill) a Kami supporter in Zora, etc. etc. etc.

2. Universe general chat, and maybe a separate Universe market channel. The need for these should be clearly evident to anyone that spends more than about an hour in Universe. I suspect that the GM's are sick and fed up of having to nudge that channel back on topic. Market is less of an issue, but from time to time, you'll see a message searching for a crafter for some sort of armor or weapon.

3. Appartments. You need to figure some way to allow other people in. Maybe you can only come in if you're on my team, and I explicitly allow you to enter. But we need something.

4. Guild list. Show us who is on and offline. Please. Pretty please. Pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top. As a side note, the leader (and maybe HO's) should be able to see the last login time of members. The guild I'm in (Fluffy Bunnies) claims to have 143 members, of whom I regularly see about 10, or at most 15. I have to wonder how many of the others are simply dead wood, people that joined, quit the game, and are still on the roster.

5. Map markers. There is no earthly reason for there to be any limit on the number of markers. WoW addons have proven this beyond all doubt. Save the map markers on the client, and any limits immediately go away. The ideal solution for this would be to allow us to select: server or client storage. Server ones travel with us to another computer, client ones don't. As a lev 80'ish forager, I can already see myself faceplanting into this problem bigtime.

6. Ranged weapons. Nice party trick nowadays, but not a serious combat technique. Three main problems: the weight and bulk of ammo, but by far the worst is the cost.

Just picking bowrifle ammo (at random). I get 3.33 (repeating of course) rounds per mat - 6 mats make 20 rounds, do the math. At a minimum of 400 dappers per mat for basic Q50 ammo parts, it costs me at least 120 dappers every time that bowrifle fires. Basic Q50 bowrifle ammo does anywhere from 80 to maybe 120 points damage, so that's one dapper per point of damage done, probably more. I challenge the devs to charge melee and spell users one dapper for each point of damage they do, and see how long Ryzom lasts till everyone leaves for other games.

Am I getting my point across here?

1. Missions. These can be a really delicate issue. When done poorly, they get to be nothing but an annoying grind, but when done well, they really can add something to a game. Going back in history a bit, Earth and Beyond managed to hit both ends of the spectrum very well. They had jobs terminals which became the most tedious grind ever imagined. However, they also had scripted missions that you got from NPC's that were a joy to do.

Please no.
Live events and specials are so much better than scripted missions.
What you say is all well and good until you realise that that person has been told their brother has died around 100 times per day for a year. That sort of takes the sting out of it. If she knows, why is the mission still there? Why is it being repeated ad infinitum? It renders the whole thing completely meaningless.

This is something I think Ryzom has done right, getting away from that but there need to be more tools (R2 and RP tools) for getting by without.

Map markers are already stored client side. I can say this without question because I had a problem with my PC, and fired up my old 1 GHz dinosaur and put Ryzom on it, and everything worked, but I lost all of my map landmarks.

On the other hand, skill shortcuts and such all remained on the toolbar as I had left them, including my own stanza modifications and suc, so those are clearly saved server-side.

Since landmarks are already apparently saved client side, this suggests that the limit could be upped substantially with little impact (if any) on performance for the individual user and absolutely no impact server-side.

C

tannack wrote: Just taking a random example, one E&B mission involved you looking for Olivia DeWinter's brother. To set the stage, Ms. DeWinter was the most calculating, cold hearted, CEO of a company you ever met. Her life revolved about making sure that everything ran at a profit. All of a sudden, this mission uncovered the fact that she actually did have a heart, because she was pretty badly cut up when you told her that her brother had died.

It takes a huge amount of work to create the content for these, but they can add a great deal to a game if done properly, if for no other reason than they really immerse you in the lore. Things like a Tryker mission to investigate, (and subsequently kill) a Kami supporter in Zora, etc. etc. etc.

I'm sorry, I might sound really negative... but what lore ? Missions telling you about Mrs Ba'Neppy (let's make her a Tryker ) has a heart of steel and you find out she has a heart of gold ? So once you found out ... the mission just goes on and on, playing over and over ... I don't quite get it, what does the Mrs Ba'Neppy end up as ? For one of the players who has done the mission, she's ok, for someone still to do it, she's plain mean ?
I'm not saying missions aren't interesting, and yes, I'd like to see more missions around, such as the ones Morgaine pictured... but I fail to see the point of the example you game (hey maybe i'm just thick ). Missions like that seem just the opposite of the sandbox feel we have. The advantage of the still unfinished Encyclopedia is that the rewards you get, bits of the lore, are something you can actually use in your lore-knowledge, or in your gameplay. But that's my opinion .

tannack wrote: 3. Appartments. You need to figure some way to allow other people in. Maybe you can only come in if you're on my team, and I explicitly allow you to enter. But we need something.

Yup would be lovely to invite people, and hold private drinking sessions instead of having to put up with the Dodgy Duo at the Thesos Bar Evenings every time... but still "you need" ? Don't you sound a bit ... demanding ? I have no idea how much/how little/what the devs are doing atm (apart from the R2 stuff we hear now and then)... but don't you think some form of "please" would make your message so much nicer ?

tannack wrote: 4. Guild list. Show us who is on and offline. Please. Pretty please. Pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top. As a side note, the leader (and maybe HO's) should be able to see the last login time of members. The guild I'm in (Fluffy Bunnies) claims to have 143 members, of whom I regularly see about 10, or at most 15. I have to wonder how many of the others are simply dead wood, people that joined, quit the game, and are still on the roster.

Ok, first of all, let's say we finally (yay !!) get that on/off little blue computer. Well if they're offline all the time, how are you going to tell them apart from those that don't play anymore ? There's a very good reason I believe why your guildroster sports so many "unavailable" players : the number of HOs and Os is proportional to the number of members. So If you really want to know who's about, best bet would be to get a hold of one of the officers or higher in your guild, and ask them. But I doubt that knowing who's online/who's not would change the fact that some rosters are filled with unused chars.

tannack wrote: 5. Map markers. There is no earthly reason for there to be any limit on the number of markers. WoW addons have proven this beyond all doubt. Save the map markers on the client, and any limits immediately go away. The ideal solution for this would be to allow us to select: server or client storage. Server ones travel with us to another computer, client ones don't. As a lev 80'ish forager, I can already see myself faceplanting into this problem bigtime.

Erm ... they are stored client side. Ask anyone who's had a crash that corrupted his save folder (happened to me a few times) ... the flags disappeared. I don't know anything about coding, so I wouldn't know how to fix that ... however i'm sure they could find a way. On a side note, taking note of the fauna/flora around you can help you avoid marking everything, that and remembering what you're lookign for .

tannack wrote: 6. Ranged weapons. Nice party trick nowadays, but not a serious combat technique. [...] At a minimum of 400 dappers per mat for basic Q50 ammo parts, it costs me at least 120 dappers every time that bowrifle fires. Basic Q50 bowrifle ammo does anywhere from 80 to maybe 120 points damage, so that's one dapper per point of damage done, probably more.

Range being not a serious combat technique ? At a lower level I'd agree... much more arguable at high levels, even though, I'll hand you that the grind can sound a bit daunting (mine is only lvl 60, but I've seen the damage a high lvl person can do ).

I'm confused as to "cost". I don't think you should expect to get by by buying mats to craft the ammo, or by buying ammo. That will always in itself be a money sink... and it's like a swordsman buying a basic q250 NPC sword because it's cheaper than a very good player made one... Range is the only fighting branch that requires you to either have a personal supplier or a craft lvl at par with your fighting ... which I suppose is what you're against. But I don't agree to the hindering cost argument you put forth. Nobody would expect you to buy NPC stuff and make money/not lose a lot.


PS: sorry for such a long post

lienem wrote:I'm sorry, I might sound really negative... but what lore ? Missions telling you about Mrs Ba'Neppy (let's make her a Tryker ) has a heart of steel and you find out she has a heart of gold ?

You had to be there. Trust me, the missions and the lore they presented in E&B completely toast any attempt at lore that this game has. That was a bit of a bad example on my part.

First of all, missions like that were "one time" - you only ever got to find her brother once. See my diatribe about the ****-awful job terminals for what happens with repeated missions.

Compare that to the scripted events here, which have been to my mind a *MAJOR* yawn fest so far. One such concerned the loss of some nobody's son in the abyss. Exactly two players were there, listening to the GM's at the Cerakos gate in Pyr: my wife and I. Nobody else showed up, or said anything in Region, where the chat was going on. I dutifully did as I promised to them, and posted in guild forums about it. Result? Nobody bothered to go.

If only two people showed up, something's seriously lacking.

The simple truth is this. You have to be online at the correct time, in the correct place to experience a GM driven event. With a community like Ryzom's that spans the globe, that's a hell of a hard problem. Make it a good scripted event and EVERYONE has the option to participate, at their own speed.

Sorry. Current score in this area so far: E&B 1, Ryzom nil.

lienem wrote: Ok, first of all, let's say we finally (yay !!) get that on/off little blue computer. Well if they're offline all the time, how are you going to tell them apart from those that don't play anymore ?

Read my post again. The part where I said:

tannack wrote: As a side note, the leader (and maybe HO's) should be able to see the last login time of members.

If the last login time is (say) six months ago, we probably have dead wood.

linemn wrote: Erm ... they are stored client side.

Then there really is no excuse. None whatsoever. I guess that's my bad, I'd assumed that the Nevrax folks were smart enough to use something other than a fixed size array. They need to talk to CCP (makers of EVE) to find out how to handle map markers. That game (a) has an unlimited number of markers, and multiple thousands per player is the norm; and (b) stores them SERVER-SIDE.

linemn wrote: I'm confused as to "cost". I don't think you should expect to get by by buying mats to craft the ammo, or by buying ammo.

Such a commonly made mistake. To assume that harvested mats are free.

Your idea of digging them up then translates to the following. I said 1 dapper per point of damage at L50, to a fiirst order approximation. If each mat costs 400 dappers, at that rate of exchange, then one basic q50 mat is worth 400 points of damage. Rather than charging dappers, you're effectively saying "You have to harvest one q50 basic mat for every 400 points of damage you want to do with your weapon / amps. Run out of mats, your weapon / amps stop working."

Whether you dig them yourself or pay someone else to dig them is irrelevant. The material cost per point of damage done is way higher when ranged weapons are compared to others. That is what I have an issue with.

Put it another way.

A 1h fyros sword (blam sword) costs 14 mats to make, and has about 150 points durability. Being very generous now, but we'll say it takes one point durability loss for each three mobs I kill with it, and each L50 mob has 400 hitpoints (they have more).

So all up, 14 mats do a grand total of 180,000 points damage, or 12,857 points per mat. Meanwhile, as noted above I'm doing just 400 points of damage per mat with ranged. That's a 30 to 1 increase in material use, because of ammo.

Now do you see the problem?

tannack wrote: First of all, missions like that were "one time" - you only ever got to find her brother once. See my diatribe about the ****-awful job terminals for what happens with repeated missions.

It's not really one time if every player can do it. You lose all sense of immersiveness and continuity if every player goes through the same story on their own.
For roleplaying, imagine how silly it is to talk to another player about the quest you completed. It becomes obvious the brother gets saved 10 times a day. Sure, someone new bails him out every time, but how much trouble can he get into in a day?
I would be very disappointed if they introduced missions that didn't make sense to be repeated like our current hunt and gather tasks. I think the rites manage the balance between "questing" and repeatability very well.


As for ranged, I've said in the past I think it could use some improvements. Activate some modifiers on the gun itself like damage, increase range, etc. But I would be opposed to making it the same "material cost per point of damage" as melee. Requiring a ranged user to forage and craft at the same level of their fight is what makes the skill unique and special, I'd hate to lose that. But out of curiosity, what would you do to change it? Eliminate the need to craft ammo?

I'm amazed you have run out of map markers in under 2 months o.o

I haven't hit the limit yet, and i have every single mat spot and boss marked in GoO, EF, ToT, US, SC, LoC, FD as well as many others elsewhere for npc's, tp's, etc..

Probably been mentioned by someone already: diversify melee animations when you switch out or place in new stanzas (e.g. bleed, ignore armour, etc.)

rushin wrote:I'm amazed you have run out of map markers in under 2 months o.o

I haven't hit the limit yet, and i have every single mat spot and boss marked in GoO, EF, ToT, US, SC, LoC, FD as well as many others elsewhere for npc's, tp's, etc..

Yeah but thats only a max of three Regions youve got on one map 47 x3 , try marking all the spots in a land (All Regions take from the same pool of Markers for that Map) and youd soon run out