A 2nd letter to FairHaven from AA

[riveit]

I'm sorry to dredge up the painful past but I left some bits of Lakeland history out seven weeks ago when I was planning to depart Atys. However, I think the record should be set straight on one point. Aedan Artisans did negotiate with the Band of the Hawks before declaring war. I asked Kenshiro to share crystals with the outpostless Trykers. There were about one hundred outpostless Trykers as I count them now. I was concerned mainly with the three large guilds of Aedan Artisans, Veni Vidi Vici and Wanderlust then comprising of, I believe, over 60 Trykers. Kenshiro's response to me was crystals went only to his (six) guildies, and if some crystals were left over they went to important allies like the Soul. I told him that the Karavan Matis would attack him and he laughed, telling me that his reputation was too good. They were all his allies and he was unbeatable. I told him that the outpostless Trykers would attack him also. His attitude seemed to me to be that Whirling belonged to the Hawks and he would not even need to defend it or share crystals with outpostless Trykers although he planned sell and trade outpost products later.

Aedan Artisans discussed attacking Whirling after these conversations but I counseled patience. Until I fought alongside the Legion of Atys at Qai-du, an outpost owned by a one homin guild. Kenshiro and Xelion were there to defend it. It appeared to me that they defended the rights of one Kamist to an outpost but couldn’t give a single crystal to their dispossessed fellow Trykers. At that point, I lost hope that Kenshiro would honor the Tryker values of equality of homins and sharing amongst homins.

We Trykers live by the virtues of freedom, equality and sharing. We believe all homins are equal and should live and let live.

[aardnebb]

*amused*

So to punish them for their apparent "selfishness" you decide to break a few of Still Wylers "live and let live" commandments yourself and nuke the defenders of their OP?

Good one.


Not disputing what was said, I wasn't there and I didn't hear (though that doesn't sound like the Kenshiro I knew), just mentioning that this shows you have a less than 100% hit rate with Tryker ethics yourself.

[tylarth]

Atys is a place of just two factions, neutrality is not a faction, but a state of indecision, non-commital and passivity, there is no extra-terrestial or supernatural power to support any neutral, to support neutrality is the path of chaos, dis-unity and ultimatly failure or destruction due to negligence of the powers and no formal unity or goal in the face of kitin.

The two powers cover the diversity of opinion already further making neutrality an obsolete concept.

The Faith of Jena is progressive and dynamic covering the many aspect of homin self determination, achievement and ambition, the vision to create a homin's Atys. To side with Jena is to side with Homins.

The faith of Ma-Duk is conservative, preserving, authoritarian, the maintainance of Atys according to a kami vision. To side with Ma-duk merely to support the kami unchanging world.

If one seeks a true neutrality of the powers, then sides of equal weight is what should be advocated, thus the tryker/matis alliance opposed to the zorai/fyros is the best means of that. If one side loses a partner, the more devote is then eliminated by the still allied force, then the remaining neutrals become the new enemy so are in turn eliminated or absorbed. A position of chosen neutrality jeapardises any real stalemate.

[philu]

You should actually read the lore and stop listening to the skewed interpretations heard by those who have lost their way or by those who don't understand our people in the first place. If you did you would know that the Tryker people put Jena first above all as the mother of creation. Even those who support the mysterious Elias Tryton and his dream of peace do not try to claim that he supplants Jena in any way.

Nonsense - follow your own advice and you'll know what Trykers value most.

What we value most ?
To be a true Tryker, you gotta live by the virtues of freedom, equality and sharing :
- Freedom : Consider all homins responsible and free of their acts. Any homin violating the freedom of another will be in breach of the Homin Rights Act, which as it happens, was first drawn up by the Tryker Council.
- Equality : Every homin has an equal right to walk the land, to obtain instruction, to harvest the natural resources, to choose their own destiny, as long as they don't encroach on other homin rights.
- Sharing : We believe that our force lies in our solidarity and that solidarity is borne from sharing. If we could persuade all Jena's children to be like us Trykers the world would be a safer place!

Only one small mention of Jena's name in there.

In fact read the whole page:
http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_races_tryker_being

Only a few mentions of either Jena or the Karavan. Hardly reads like they put her first!

[akicks]

You (Samsara) fought on the side of Ma-Duk when directed to build temples after months of proclaiming that homin versus homin activites were condemning and barbaric (something to this effect proclaimed at the Hominist convention by Jyudas, that I attended).

If more people had hired us then more of us would have been digging on the karavan side. As it happens there wasn't much interest from the karavan in our services. And the little interest we had could only afford the services of Rashan.

Which is a shame considering we dug the most mats for the temples.

[tylarth]

If more people had hired us then more of us would have been digging on the karavan side. As it happens there wasn't much interest from the karavan in our services. And the little interest we had could only afford the services of Rashan.

Which is a shame considering we dug the most mats for the temples.

I offered to hire the entire guild to dig for the karavan, i was refused, as they were under obligation of the current contracts, i offered a sum ro revoke the proir contract, that was refused (ooc reason given was unlike Rashan most of the samsara at the time did not have the freedom to change to karavan, due to a far greater kami fame). So there were offers and oppurtunity but it seems that dappers was not sufficient a motivating factor for the mercenaries.

[philu]

I offered to hire the entire guild to dig for the karavan, i was refused, as they were under obligation of the current contracts, i offered a sum ro revoke the proir contract, that was refused (ooc reason given was unlike Rashan most of the samsara at the time did not have the freedom to change to karavan, due to a far greater kami fame). So there were offers and oppurtunity but it seems that dappers was not sufficient a motivating factor for the mercenaries.

Everyone knows that Nevrax messed up the Rp side of EP2. Take that whole "work for both sides" rubbish response to the content complaints from neutrals.

Sometimes game mechanics and RP stances just don't meet. The impact of fame has changed over time. Choices made in the early days have hit how people play the game. I know a lot of people only did missions to raise fame to get better prices. Then the fame system changed all that and fame has more impact on game mechanics.

The Samsara aren't the only ones who have been forced to compromise some of the ways they play the game. Take TNE as a perfect example. They always wanted to be a purely neutral guild, open to homins from all races and creeds. Game mechanics forced them to choose to be Karavan.

At the time of EP2, many people found their fame forcing them down a particular route. I guess the choice was a simple one, spend ages changing your fame (and possibly miss out on the whole event) or work for the side the game mechanics forced on you.

Sometimes compromises have to be made.



EDIT: However, none of this has anything to do with the Trykers!! Quit posting off topic.

[iphdrunk]

If more people had hired us then more of us would have been digging on the karavan side. As it happens there wasn't much interest from the karavan in our services....

Uhm... that's not exactly how I saw the things I am afraid some of my offers were refused, mainly because of the ooc argument of the difficulty to switch sides, or even just not to monopolyze Rash on the Kara side.

Finally (which was perfectly ok for me..* Hugs Rash *) at some point I offered them to name their price, basically an IC effort to stop Jy, hiring not only Rash but any Samsara that would be available. The answer I got is that thier motto was "Wealth *and* Glory" and that at that point, they were more for the glory part...

[sprite]

If more people had hired us then more of us would have been digging on the karavan side.

Don't make me dig up Jy's posts where he says "some things are more important than money"

[riveit]

break a few of Still Wylers "live and let live" commandments yourself and nuke the defenders of their OP?

Good one.

Yes, we broke the peace. AA and I have been criticized for it many times in posts and messages far harsher than yours. To me, being nuked and spawning is a momentary inconvenience. However, injustice and inequality is a perpetual state. As we dig, craft and hunt to buy crystals from much smaller guilds, I often ponder the three Tryker virtues, freedom (especially from slavery), equality of homins and sharing. Like many others, you have deftly avoided mentioning them. So I ask you, Zahan, is an outpost owned by one homin an injustice? Is it an affront to the principle of equality of homins? Or does that homin deserve it enjoy its riches forever because they "prepared" for the coming of outposts, as some argue, even though a thousand homins go without? Can we reach agreement on this one issue?