Ryzom

ok, so your argument is: "we are not enough people, so we should all be uber" ?
meh, don't even want to discuss that

btw, mind telling me at which level the point sets in at which "a single healer should be able to keep two others at full strength by casting heal+sap or heal+stam combos" doesn't work anymore? i at least wanna be prepared.

I don't have it in me to go through these huge threads anymore, but just a quick note:

If one choice makes it easier on people, the average vote will be swayed. This, along with the notion that going from what people are adjusted to to something harder will take a re-adjustment period, should be considered. More emphasis than a face value vote result should be placed on leaving heals reduced. If I offended anyone, I didn't mean to. We're all human, and these are human factors to consider.

xenofur wrote:ok, so your argument is: "we are not enough people, so we should all be uber" ?
meh, don't even want to discuss that.

Ok, you don't have too The longer this continues, the less people there will be. Although the argument is not for "uberness", merely balance, it's just that, at the moment, mobs are "uber". Two things would solve the problem;

One, restore the previous healing power, and if the minority of PvPers still whine about it, institute the same filter on heals in PvP that was previously on player damage.

Two, and far better in my opinion, adjust the mobs strength, absorption of damage, resists, health, use of stamina/sap, range etc, to match those of players at the mobs levels, and using equipment equal in quality to what may be gleaned from the mob. This has worked very well since Mr. Gygax had us rolling our first 12-sider.

xenofur wrote:btw, mind telling me at which level the point sets in at which "a single healer should be able to keep two others at full strength by casting heal+sap or heal+stam combos" doesn't work anymore? i at least wanna be prepared.

This misunderstanding is really starting to get annoying.

It is not at higher levels(200+) that the nerf has caused the most damage. It is to the person who is spending their trial period or first paying month with DP and gets so fed up, they quit before they are invested.

It is also to the person whose real life already consists of struggle, competition, deadlines and tough odds, and they pay to play because it allows escape. If some have it so easy that those kind of odds are desireable in a make-believe world, they should re-evaluate their real life, and either stop slacking, or at least devote more time to charity.

Bottom line, the longer this nerf lasts, the fewer people will continue to play.

thebax wrote:Bottom line, the longer this nerf lasts, the fewer people will continue to play.

but nevrax is using the episode two patch to cover the nerf. it'll work for me, provided the episode proves VERY good.

thebax wrote:a single healer should be able to keep two others at full strength by casting heal+sap or heal+stam combos

Here's your problem. The old way to heal for some was to set up double heals combining hp+stam, hp+sap and hp+hp. The way things work now with the 20% credit increase for doubles this doesn't work as well. The effective way is to instead bomb heal hp regularly and throw in the occasional bomb heal stam (for tanks).

Previously: heal the same person for two things at once, then heal the 2nd person for the same things.

Now: heal two people for one thing, then heal them again for another.

If your team consists of a healer, nuker and tank then you're going to have to make do with single stam and sap heals and get them to stand within 15m or so of each other for the bomb hp heal. This kind of team and duo's will have problems.

Anyone who hunts with me knows I like large teams. Duo's are ok if you've got a hot Tryker healer (that's *female*, Baxter) but there's nothing like a small army of you and your friends tackling creatures way above your level for 2-3k of non-stop experience. Change the way you think about healing and come and join the fun.

Rashan is dead on right. I hunted this weekend with a team of 5 using 180 skills against Great Zerx at Paramount Stock. We had a single healer in the 150 range and had no problems using bomb heals to keep ppl up. It's more adjusting strategies then going back to the old heals(which were overpowered imo). A little changing of strategy can make the game more intresting.We also had our nukes doing singles with vampirism to keep their hps up so only an occasional sap heal was needed to help the healer.Rezzing is now harder but I guess coming back from the dead should never be easy.Maybe we will be more cautious and it adds some needed excitement at crunch time.

Both sides are right somehow. For the higher healers it still works. I still can use my HP+SAP and HP+STAM doubles, but have to throw in a single or double HP inbetween. With more then one tank the bombs are nice now. And we have to adjust spells more often to fit the situation. Although nerfed i start to use lower bricks in some situations.

I made my 185 ele with a 102 healer without problems and leveled my 2H sword and pike in Min-Cho with a lvl 85 healer without problems. Just make sure your healer is always full on HP and SAP.

But bax is not wrong too. For starters it is a little harder at the beginning. On the other side those lower healers are much more welcome now and therefore have more possibilities to advance in skill.

I also appeal to higher levels to play with new players. If you invest two hours and root some mobs for him he soon has SP enough to be a useful healer for your ranged or be a 2nd healer in a team.

Bottomline for me is that healing is more interessting again. Its more like it was when i was a lvl65 healer.

If you have found a way to work within the new constraints, good

I am level 170 in healing, and, while I am annoyed that they took what was already the hardest role in a hunting group, and made it twice as difficult, I am able to manage.

Neither of the above matters.

I do not find it enjoyable to be dropped back to level 85 after a lot of work, and I wonder how long I will continue to pay for a game I do not enjoy.

I am not alone in this. I can not log in for more than an hour without recieving tells or encountering people who tell me, unsolicited, that they are leaving Ryzom. I tell them I am sticking around for a little longer, things may change, would they consider doing the same? So far, only one has decided to stay for "a little while", the rest have stated that they want no part of PvP, they are sick of changes, like to healing, that will be applied to Ryzom because of PvP. They are sick of paying for a game that, because of a loud-mouthed minority of players, is being made worthless to the majority. Even without setting foot in the non-consentual PvP zones, PvPer's are already forcing their game on the rest of us.

The above are not the only ones quitting. The future Healers of Atys are leaving because they are in a group and unable to heal for even half the damage the mob their teamates are fighting is doing. The future Fighters and Mages of Atys are leaving because their Healers cannot keep them alive long enough to win more than 1-2 fights out of three, and, contrary to what some fanbois have said, DP is not fun for most people.

If this thread were a moderated by a referee in a debate setting, it would long since be over, point: Remove the nerf. Every real argument for the nerf has been, repeatedly, shot down.

However, we are not refereed. While my comments are directed at the moderaters (and through them, the developers) and not at any players who have taken the time to post on these forums, it is worrisome that they may be swayed by the ill thought out arguments for the nerf.

Therefore, please consider this; I believe my side has won the argument, nerf supporters likely believe they have won the argument. If, however, they have won the argument, we all lose. There simply won't be enough people left playing to support the servers. None of the other points, ours or yours matter. It doesn't matter whether or not heals were previously over-powered. It doesn't matter whether or not healing is still possible, or how many extra healers are needed per team.

All that matters is that players are leaving because of the nerf. If Neverax is foolish enough to listen to the pro-nerf lobby, you will win the argument, but lose the game.

you know, for me it's not really that i want an unnerf, it's simply that i cannot correlate your reasonings with reality. i hear you saying the mobs are unbalanced, but i don't know which mobs you are talking about. i hear you say the game has become very difficult for low level players and at the same time very difficult for high-level players. personally i'm exactly in the middle of that with lvl 89 melee and 65 heal, but i didn't notice any increase in difficulty, quite the opposite. :/
i am member of an alliance of 100+ players and i have yet to hear any of them complain or even voice any intentions of leaving. my friendlist is as lit up as it hasn't been two months ago. so where are all the leaving players?

well, the first thing i'll do when the server is back up, is make myself a noob, perhaps i can experience what you describe.