[DEV] Rebalancing changes - Proposition

[katriell]

So healing is going to be yet another skill where low-level players are useless?

[micrix]

Dear DEVs,

any chance to handle the decrease of magic dynamically ?

I really understand that two teams of nine are awsome powerful, but a single taveller or a team of two is not really overpowered.

A dynamic based on number of teammembers and/or based on region would be imho ok.

[micrix]

So healing is going to be yet another skill where low-level players are useless?

Useless ? No, not really. While you can not keep a highlevel melee or mage up and running you are very usefull as 2nd healer (the healer of the healer).

If the mentioned changes will take place, the lower healers even get more important.

[sidusar]

So healing is going to be yet another skill where low-level players are useless?

Useless? Absolutely not. Firstly, no class is useless as long as they're fighting creatures suitable to their own level. You can't really expect a level 50 player hunting together with a level 150 group to be equally usefull as the other teammembers?

But you're referring to most classes being utterly useless and not getting experience in such a situation, which healers will never be. What makes meleers, elementalists and pretty much any other class useless against creatures 100 levels above them, is that they can't get a single hit in (I don't really like that system either, btw). Healing spells always hit, so low-level healers will never be useless. They just won't be able to single-handedly meet the healing demands of a team where everyone else is 50 levels above them.

And I'll mention it again: heal life is cut in half, but heal sap and heal stamina are almost doubled. So low-level healers will actually be more usefull than they are now in the role of secondary healer, keeping the main healer full of sap.
Also remember the nerfs to the double missile will not affect healers below level 100, so if anything these changes will make the gap between low and high level healers smaller, not wider.

[norvic]

"All the current issues result from the possibility to raise people from death in 0 time, making the mage an equal tank with a decent healer. If you just add a short delay (like 1 minute) before a player could be raised from death a whole new situation would arise.

Maybe someone could post the above suggestion on the official boards, since I can't anymore (only if you think it worth it)

After reading the proposed changes just now I don't think they will ever learn. Changing 10 or more parameters at once is a BAD idea. In the end you will never know which change made the balance worse again and then the fiddling with the parameters starts over and over again. Why can't they just introduce one small change after the next instead of throwing their whole system over board. Patch 1 should have taught them =(.

- Jewel changes seem nice, but might turn out too powerful.

- Healing power change is long overdue and will likely need to be even more if all the new resists come into play.

- The XP changes can be exploited to powerlvl low lvl chars, but who cares anyhow.

- Changes to mage spells go the right direction, but not sure in the implication with all the other changes.

But imho the possibility to raise dead in 0 time is the worst issue there is right now."


The above is a post from Sky lifted from our forums although Sky is currently not with us and cannot post still takes an interest in events and as an experienced player i felt i should post his opinion

The possibility to still be able too insta res in a PvP situation is abit daft making strategic targetting to take key targets out abit of a nonsense,

[borg9]

More questions than answers....

1. Changing resistances on jewels

Very nice change, mix and match jewels will allow specialised or smaller across the board resists.

When the term 'resist' is used in this context, I assume you mean a resisted spell will result in no damage (effect) from that spell.

2. Adding new magic protections on jewels

Great! You mention 7 types of spell will that can be absorbed, do the overlay on the mob spell attacks, cold from stingas, lightning from Kinchers, poison from Jugulars. Effectively giving players 80% protection from these mobs spells/attacks. Won't this drastically unbalance PvE, for example I get a set of fire absorbing jewels, with fire resists and hunt Onyx. First the Onyx has to overcome my natural resistance to fire (+ jewel adds), then if it does hit its fire damage is reduced by 80%.

3. Adding absobption of magic or melee special hits from mobs

This point suggest to me that with armour it will be possible to get absorption to 100% by combining armour and jewels or does the 80% rule apply? In which case, the 3-4 max covered by jewels, can be added to by armours, covering the other 3-4.



Does this apply to all armour types?

Is it scaled for Light/Medium/Heavy?

Will this scale with the ql of the jewels? (Currently you get the resist base on the ambers used regardless of ql)



4. Dividing heal life's power by 2

Great! Heal life has been way overpowered since patch 1+++ (need to check actual implementation) It has created lazy team members and will bring back the need to 'fighting on the edge' and 'hunting the correct mobs'. With the possible 80% reduction in special attack damage, this will greatly reduce the need for 'huge heals' and 'insta rez'. Healers may have to heal more often with lower spells to conserve their resources.

Random point - Is it possible to adjust the XP calculation formula to count the healers level as say, 2/3 of actual. Currently it seems pointless level heal to 250 as you become an 'XP nerfer' and are either forced to heal 'out of team' or only join named/boss/npc/soon_to_be_add_uber_mobs hunts.

5. Increasing heal stamina's and heal sap's power

Yep about time, currently the HP credits use less HP than the equivalent SAP or STAM credit, encouraging the dependence on this one stat (HP). Currently the equipment market really only demands HP or FOCUS on equipment. This will be a nice way to encourage the importance of the other stats.

6. Changing XP gain to give some even when the target resists

Need a definition of SOME.

Sorry, to the afflictors of this world, by I would say NO WAY to this. I get frustrated when I don't land a hit and the team blindly nukes the mob in secs, leaving me with no XP.... but what you are proposing here is an exploiters heaven. (Its been mentioned by others, but to repeat it). Low level afflictor join a team and rapid casts a spell and waits for (some of) the 3k to roll in. At present there is an issue with Madness get less XP than other affs, isn't the 'some of' going to make the system even more complex.

If I cast an elem spell and a aff spell that is resisted, do I get full XP for the elem and 'some of' the XP for the aff?

Eg

2 casts of elem

1 casts of aff (resisted)

XP = 3k total

2000 to elem

500 to aff (some of = 50%)

or

XP = 3k total

2500 to elem

500 to aff (some of = 50%)



Also do this apply to melees that do hit or have their attacks dodged/parried by mobs?

7. Changing XP gain for healers to give some even if the target is at full life

Need a definition of SOME.

Again NO WAY,

Point 6 and 7 seem to be encouraging the spamming of skills to gain 'Some XP'.

Its a nice thought but, best intentions will be abused.

8. Suppression of the dividing factor in PvP

Guess this is a must, as PvP is becoming a key driver of the game now. Not done that much research in to PvP as the current state is way out of balance.

9. Increasing double spell's casting time by 2 seconds

So the double spell stanza will have a base time add of 2 sec + time to cast of the components. Equivalent to a 1 sec increase when using 100% speed amps. This sounds fair. In a team it will only reduce the time to kill a little and will reduce the strain on healers. From a solo perspective, it might mean a step down in mob level or increasing the need to put distance between you and the mob.

10. Increasing double spell points consumption by 20%

The way I read this is that the stanzia will add 'malus/penalty' to the amount of SAP/HP consumed rather than requiring additional credits to build the plan. Is this correct? Can't comment on this till that question is answered.

11. Increasing area of effect's power by about 2

Spells only or all area of effects (see launchers) with the reduction of the Heal power and increase in STAM/SAP, this will mean effectively no change to the current 'Heal bomb' and a quadrupling of the 'STAM/SAP bomb'. Is the a correct understanding?

12. Increasing the absorption limits of armors

Sounds good in theory, Is this not going to counter the changes made in point 8?

Is this purely to help Melee kill light armoured foes more easily?

Pike + ignore armour is therefore still the PvP weapon of choice?

Will it be raised to the point where CC/1 handed are almost useless against an armoured foe?

[boinged]

I agree with all the changes. My background is mainly melee 200+ and healing 150+.

Regarding the healing - a healer 100 levels lower than me can currently easily keep me alive as I tank with them in a duo (i.e no need for me to heal their sap/hp). I can keep about half a team of higher level people alive when healing. IMHO healing is overpowered and the changes are fair.

The other changes look like a way for melee to now stand a chance against nukers. Also, nuke fights will go on for a bit longer so the element of chance should be less and skill more important.

Not sure about the double cast issue but I'm sure decent testing by Nevrax and on the ATS will soon determine if this is too extreme.

[sehracii]

I was at first very excited about getting XP even when missing in a fight.

That stemmed from afflictions having the slowest rate of fire. Here I'm assuming the afflictionistis trying use it effectively and waiting every shot to see if the attack links. (often I can't even start attacking as the melee pulls as elementalists do, because a stun too far out is just annoying for the melee) If I'm spamming the spell I'm essentially leeching XP as the 1 second of effect doesn't really help the team.

I'd like to withdraw that support of the no-hit XP. I don't think it will be necessary, as decreasing the effectiveness of elemental double missiles will eliminate the problem at the source. The only time I miss with afflictions in a group of about my level is when the nukes kill it too fast.

I should have no trouble linking if the fights are drawn out a little bit.

This WILL be used to power level low players and the devs have to ask themselves if they want that.

I understand they want to "level the playing field" as currently powerleveling heal is incredibly easy. It would be more appropriate to make it so there was a chance a healer too low didn't get XP, but I see no easy way to implement that.

Cutting heal life in half though will make it less likely that a nuker/healer duo can level quickly, particularly if the healer is lower level. Low healers will be more common as secondarys and not primaries, and I suppose that will help the situation

[toneh]

So,

If you can power level a low player, cuz he doesnt need to hit to get xp now, does that mean he doesnt really need to take part at all?

So he can stop somewhere safe and get xp from the team?

Or, is there some other method to detect he has actually taken part in the combat?

EDIT: Hmm, thinking about it its the misses! bah i'm stupid today.

Although not getting a aff spell off quick enough would still be a problem?

[thebax]

Sidusar- I still believe my ampless test to be valid, though I have already stated my case as well, and with all the particulars, within my capabability. I may well be inccorrect, that is the nature of the human (homin?) condition, hence, the value of testing. I sincerely hope both that I AM wrong, and that the current code for healing is kept as a backup, in case I am not.

My healing is my highest magic skill. Currently, if I am teamed with a tank only, one within 10 levels of me, I can indeed fufill my role while exerting myself no more than they do. While teamed with a nuker close to my level, I can (usually, depends on their fight level, thus health and regeneration of same) keep them up and functioning, though I will need to be healed myself after every 1-2 fights, sitting while they pull is insufficient in this case to regenerate. However in groups of two tanks,or two nukers, or one tank, one nuker, and myself, all of comparable level, I am often forced to keep them as close as I can to 1 pixel down during the beginning of the fight, then sit for the remainder, hoping they roll well, for if they fall, I am near deffenseless. I must sit in these instances, because I am completely out of sap, and my health is down to approximately 1 tenth of it's max. Also, remember that they will be introducing requirements for jewels and clothing, so in the future, a healer of my rank will be limited to jewels 100 quality levels lower than I use, and clothing around 50 quality levels lower, so they will reach the near-dead state much sooner. This is when fighting things like Varnix, so any proposed special resistances will not alter the situation.

Jyudas- I believe the purpose of reaching a point where you can heal for more than maximum health is to allow you to, in 2-3 casts, replace the astounding amount of negative health that can occur with death, thus ressurecting your tank before the Great Najab or Kincher eats your face.

The vast majority of the proponents for nerfing healing site PvP examples. It seems as though it would please everyone if it was handled thusly:

Apply the same formula to healing in PvP as is currently applied to damage, leave the healing alone for PvE.