PvP, the devil: or (to P or not to P?)

[holina]

my point is that high lvl players have no benifits, maybe removing them wud be a good idea, but also stops diggers knowing who is comming

It works both ways, yes, easier for the prey to hide and the hunter to sneak up on his/her prey

Btw, the high level players do have benefits, they have higher resist/dodge/parry aswell as more damage output, hp etc. and with the new LA and Jewelry requirements low level players will have less benefits from them - as it should be.

True, you can't nuke someone from 50m out unless you can select them, but this will also make scouts/spotters more frequent.

It also means that PVP will become more Player vs Player instead of Character vs Character. Character skill level is too important in Ryzom imho. But maybe that's just me.

[kyesmith]

It works both ways, yes, easier for the prey to hide and the hunter to sneak up on his/her prey

Btw, the high level players do have benefits, they have higher resist/dodge/parry aswell as more damage output, hp etc. and with the new LA and Jewelry requirements low level players will have less benefits from them - as it should be.

True, you can't nuke someone from 50m out unless you can select them, but this will also make scouts/spotters more frequent.

It also mean that PVP will become more Player vs Player instead of Character vs Character. Character skill level is too important in Ryzom imho. But maybe that's just me.

getting lvl 250 isnt exactly easy (exept elemental) so having bonuses for those who reach there are needed, or like alot of people they will just leave.

[sehracii]

Just keep in mind (everyone) that if lvl 250's start killing lvl 150's frequently (as they easily can), then the lower levels will leave.

It works both ways.

[amitst]

I have been wondering.. Whats the difference between Duel and PvP Challenge IG?

There is supposed to be PvP challenge maps that your whole team/guild is warped to. At the conclusion of the match you are all returned to your original location.

[larwood]

Edit: Nevermind, not gonna get into it. You all know how I feel about PvP anyway. No need to rehash hashed browns.

[vinnyq]

Yep, or you will over cook it Thom

PVP discussion has probably started since the beginning of human civilzation, when cavemen picked up rocks and eyeballed each other.

I agree with Kye in that PVP will bring in more "meat" and "contents" to game, as Xavier stated himself in his latest QA. It was the main purpose of why I started this thread during Outposts dicussion.

But now, I am not so sure if PVP can be handle in a mature manner without feelings hurt, as Jyudas had stated.

So, I agree that PVP can be a good thing, but the reasoning why you PVP can be extremely sensitive and hard to keep from getting ugly. So now I am leaning more toward reeeealy limited PVP or no PVP at all, due to recent incidents.

The only thing that make sense then is for Nevrax to implement things that will give actual meaning to PVP (such as Outposts and story events). That might solve a lot of the griefing problem, I am hoping. That way, the players who actually want to PVP won't have to go out to look for it themselves and have a real purpose for PVP'ing and the rest of the community won't get so mad at them for doing it.

[holina]

getting lvl 250 isnt exactly easy (exept elemental) so having bonuses for those who reach there are needed, or like alot of people they will just leave.

The problem is that elemental is too powerful compared to... well basically everything except for heal. A full reballance will be needed anyway especially if PVP will have a more central role in Ryzom, or we will see AoD-s nuking eachother left and right which will become boring very quickly.

Maybe a solution would be that you can't initiate PVP in areas lower than your level and having PVP missions in place with rewards.

This way every level group could enjoy PVP and the rewards would suit their levels. Ofc if a lvl150 player wanders into a lvl250 hunting ground, it's their problem

I know, combat restrictions based on levels is not the best solution. It all depends on how Nevrax will reballance stuff. If they bring everything close to the power of elemental then only high level players will PVP, cause lower level player will not stand a chance unless they have overwhelming numbers. If they bring ele down to melee-like level, then you are right about more options needed for higher levels.

Atm PVP in Ryzom is casual, not much incentive to do it or not to do it. So all this may not seem important, but that will quicky change when there will be a reason - aside form the fun factor - to PVP.

[lupine04]

This is a great thread.. I actually read about 90.01% of the posts.

I find I agree overwhelmingly with Grimjim and have experienced the same behavior in other MMORPGs with open PvP. As he so adequately put it, it brings out the worst in people. Why? Ego, mostly. Immaturity. A feeling of inadequacy in real-life that they're compensating for in-game. Pure and unfiltered idiocy. All sorts of things.

And I don't even think the problem would arise from this game's current populace as it remains (as it was from launch) a very mature and respectful player-base; at least from what I've seen. Every community has its pits, of course.

That brings me to another point - if it's not the current player base to be concerned with, it would most certainly be the new players it attracts. The l337 d3wd5, so to speak. Those are the ones who will basically power-level and then hang out around the lowest-level area they can, and continually attack and kill low level players who have no chance to fight back - ie. ganking. They do, and will, feel completely justified in doing so, citing it as being open PvP and calling the victim a "carebear" if they dare say anything about it. The idea of attacking players closer to your own level where you might lose is lost on them because they have no grasp of the concept. They want to win unconditionally - not to be challenged. That *is* the game to them. As soon as they lose their edge, the game gets boring and they go to the next one. Pit one of these lowbie gankers against someone their own level and they'd be dropped in nothing flat. They can't compete on their own level with any hope of winning - so they don't. Your typical schoolyard bully situation.

Case in point: Lineage II. Lineage II is designed around and completely promotes open PvP; even to the extent that lowbie griefing/ganking is considered a perfectly legal gameplay tactic. However, this does not mean the behavior is justified or even respected. If a lower level player makes it known that they're being ganked/griefed without hope of winning, other high level players *will* come to that location and take care of the griefer. Many times, at the first sign of higher level players coming around to take care of them the griefer will immediately log off, like the coward they are. I've seen this many times in that game. Why is it that they do this? Why not stand and fight? Because they couldn't handle losing or being defeated themselves. PvP is only fun for them when they're the ones doing the killing.

That's not to say that L2 doesn't have its mature PvP'ers.. there's plenty. But you'll never find them around the lowbie areas, unless it's to hunt down the lowbie gankers as explained above. The more mature players are out experiencing the gameplay at the higher levels, competing against similarly leveled opponents. They go after the gankers/griefers because they recognize that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a new player and hurts the game's population. They're trying to curb it, even while being proponents of PvP themselves. That's the difference.

The concept of PvP in itself is fine, and doesn't have to be limited to killing another player. It could be implemented in psychological or strategic ways as well, so long as the gameplay mechanics allow for it. It's the types of people it tends to attract and their (often) immature mentalities that ruin it for everyone else. Every other MMORPG I've played that has allowed open PvP to any degree has experienced the same element of players. I see no reason why Ryzom would be any different.

These are the circumstances that have ruined other games with open or semi-open PvP for me... and I suspect they're what Grimjim is speaking about in his posts... though I could be wrong.

[vinnyq]

wow, friggin awesome post.

*eyeballs Shanree, in a good way*

[sehracii]

I concur with Fyrx! (well, maybe not on the eyeballin')

Shanree, I really do hope you stick around