If major areas are Open PVP all the time (as the Prime Roots will appear to be), I will drop SoR and not look back regardless of how much time is left on my subscription.
Travelling from the Witherings to anywhere REQUIRES travelling through at least one Root area, requiring EVERY Zoraï that wants to travel to enter an area that has been designated as open PVP.
Poll: To open pvp, or not open pvp [b]in the prime roots[/b]
Re: Poll: To open pvp, or not open pvp [b]in the prime roots[/b]
very interesting post coming from you neo, very interesting indeed
that was very, hmm.. doublesided, considering complaining about what others are posting in your post and telling others not to complain, is just, two headed per say
Everyone, and yea, including yourself, have a right to post there opinion on things, either before, during or after, the very reason why Cerest posted the up and coming changes is so that they could get the initial feedback on how this is going to effect the player base.
You have your way of expressing concerns, and everyone else has there way, please don't forget that before trying to tell everyone what and what not to do.
It will go a long way.
My sarcasm, and it was just that, sarcasm, was based on the fact that there were people trying to compare the reality of having a pack mule in one stable and unable to access it in another, this is a 'makes sense, would work that way in real life' scenario, and they implamented it as such, to mimic if you were in one horse stable in america trying to get stuff from another horse stable in europe, you couldn't, type of effect.
The access to the mules was fine before the patch to some (including myself) and then after the patch, its fine also to others (including myself).
I have a feeling that the only reason why they give the information to Celest to post is so they don't make a patch 1 mistake again.
that was very, hmm.. doublesided, considering complaining about what others are posting in your post and telling others not to complain, is just, two headed per say
Everyone, and yea, including yourself, have a right to post there opinion on things, either before, during or after, the very reason why Cerest posted the up and coming changes is so that they could get the initial feedback on how this is going to effect the player base.
You have your way of expressing concerns, and everyone else has there way, please don't forget that before trying to tell everyone what and what not to do.
It will go a long way.
My sarcasm, and it was just that, sarcasm, was based on the fact that there were people trying to compare the reality of having a pack mule in one stable and unable to access it in another, this is a 'makes sense, would work that way in real life' scenario, and they implamented it as such, to mimic if you were in one horse stable in america trying to get stuff from another horse stable in europe, you couldn't, type of effect.
The access to the mules was fine before the patch to some (including myself) and then after the patch, its fine also to others (including myself).
I have a feeling that the only reason why they give the information to Celest to post is so they don't make a patch 1 mistake again.
Re: Poll: To open pvp, or not open pvp [b]in the prime roots[/b]
I think we all remember Patch 1, how they didn't listen to the feedback from ATS on what the changes would do to harvesting. They went ahead and implemented and lost a LOT of the harvesters.neofuzz wrote:
Give it a rest, ok?
I guess the point is that it would be better to make a fuss now, than after the patch for what I consider an ill-conceived notion of targeting harvesters who have been foraging the Prime Roots and making that area a free for all. There is no other place we can practice our craft.
They have already said there would be no immunity flag, that you will be an open target whether you want to PvP or not. And they said it will be in the Prime Roots only.
Knowing that what I have been spending the last months doing will no longer be an appealing play style, it is affecting me NOW, due to the fact that a) they will not even acknoledge the plight of the Prime Root harvesters and b) they have a track record of doing what they want and suffering the consequences before they achieve some sort of revelation that causes them to fix the problem they created after the patch.
What I am sick of is the people who get all gung-ho when the change doesn't adversely affect them. There are only a handfull of high level Prime Root Harvesters. Perhaps Nevrax has calculated that the loss to (and potentially of) these players is worth it to gain people that would come to Ryzom for open PvP.
It is their game, and their business. If they want to do so, fine. But, it is MY time and money that I will no longer spend trying to excel in a profession that is no longer viable in SoR.
Again, I ask, how would you feel if only your homeland was slated for open PvP? Would you recreate to a different homeland? Would you find a different game? Would you put up with the fact that your homeland friends couldn't even kill a yubo in safety, that they should be taught to run every time a blue dot appears on the screen? And, most importantly, would you try to appeal to Nevrax BEFORE they implemented this in an attempt change their minds?
I know the answer to these questions. The Prime Roots has effectively been my homeland for the last month or so. It is where I spend my time and practice my craft (for those that don't know, Prime Roots harvesting is a different skill tree than Forest harvesting, or Lake harvesting. Having high points in one still leaves you a newbie in the other.
So, I will not be "giving it a rest".
Re: Poll: To open pvp, or not open pvp [b]in the prime roots[/b]
I think its good to debate these things out, before they hit the live servers. Yes, some points are being beaten into the ground, but it has been a fairly civil debate.
As I've said, I enjoyed PvP in DAoC. That is what the game was about afterall. It also was one of the main reasons I quit that game too. PvP just doesn 't work well in RPG's. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but it tends to bring as much frustration as it does enjoyment.
Every game I've played, had some form of PvP. AC had consentual anywhere PvP. You could go to an alter and declare yourself and then have at it anywhere you wanted. Only a few die hard people did PvP. I must say the battles were fun to watch. There was one exception which I'll talk about later.
DaoC was desgined around PvP or Realm vs Realm combat. They had open RvR zones. If you went into that zone you could be attacked by other realms, your "enemies". That is similar to making the prime roots an open PvP zone.
In SWG, they had factional PvP. It was consentual for the most part. You declared yourself "overt" and you could attack and be attacked anywhere in the game. There was a second option, factional covert, where you coudn't be attacked by other players accept if you had a temperary enemy flag, which you could get by various means.
By far, DAoC had the best PvP, and yet it had its flaws. On the top of the list for all games I've played was balance. To start, level 250>100 . Everyone grinds up to max level so they can complete fairly in PvP. Not much fun getting killed over and over again by people who simply are higher level than you are. The smart player avoids the fights he can't win. Power gamers tend to rule PvP.
Once that is out of the way, then there is class or profession balance, or in Ryzom skill balance. It's a constant tweaking game of what power lets you win with ease. I can already see problems with item enchantments and other magical properties. PvP is fun when both sides get to have a chance to win. Not the first person to hit the magic "I win" button. Ranged vs Melee has been a problem in every game I've played. Things like, stun, root, mezz, plagued DAoC for its entire time. Nobody likes to be frozen the entire battle and get killed without doing anything. It's just not fun. Everyone looks for that "perfect template" that lets them dominate PvP. In AC it was OG mages. IN SWG it was a combination of, believe it or not, melee classes. In DAoC, it was a class based, group based game, but there were classes that dominated for a long time. In a game like Ryzom, where you can learn any skills, I see PvP turning out more like it did in SWG, where people find the skill set that lets them dominate and everyone will copy it.
Zzei brought up the point of rewards. In DAoC and SWG you got "realm" or "faction" points for killing a person. In DaoC that let you buy new powers. While it gave you a reason to PvP, the powerful got even more powerful. In SWG, you could buy faction bases and other things to support PvP.
These kinds of rewards led to "farming". When you need 50k realm points for the next rank and a new power, you don't care who you kill. You only get realm points for winning. One on one combat might be about your character template, group on group PvP is about putting the classes together in a way that lets you dominate. It wasn't long before someone created what was called the "gank group", a group devised of close friends solely to go out and farm realm points.
DaoC had castles in its zones you could take over. The devs tried hard to give players a reason to do this. Number one were the relics that gave an entire side a huge boost to their combat powers. A funny thing happens in a PvP game when you give players an objective, they do everything they can do avoid PvP.
I won't say I wasn't in some good castle sieges, but a great majority of the time, if you knew a castle was defended, you looked for easier meat. Let them grow bored sitting inside defending, while you go attack an undefended castle. The relic castles were super tough, it was clear that any defended relic castle was pretty much impossible to take down, so if you wanted a relic, you staged an early morning raid when most of the server was sleeping in their beds. There were prime time raids, but again, the purpose was to take the enemy completly by surprise so they coudn't muster a force to defend before you were gone. The objective was to win, not to fight players.
The best reason to PvP I saw was an event they had in AC. The story had us breaking these crystal shards during previous events. The rewards were pretty good if you did. Eventually, light dawned on many players, that breaking the shards was a bad thing. We were somehow weakening the prison of the ulitmate bad guy. So players, had the ultimate defense of the final shard. On most the other servers, the final shard fell with ease and pretty quickly. A couple, the players defended the shard for a week or two. I got to be on the lucky server, where the shard defense held for the entire month of the event. I certainly don't suggest camping 24/7, and that's what had to be done. We had shifts of players to guard the shard at all times.
There was one early morning raid, when the defense was at its ebb, and the few defenders in the room were killed, that they had their chance to destroy the shard. Luckily, for us, that did not happen and the defenders were able to rally more forces. The event created buzz and it gave people a reason to PvP.
DaoC was the only game to use open zones for combat. Those zones were pretty much empty all the time. You only went there if you were looking for a fight. There were mobs and such, but mostly you didn't go level and take the chance you would loose exp to a mob, if a gank group popped up. Gankers liked to farm the realm gates from time to time. A great majority of the fights took place at the great wall, a short distance from the fortress the bad guys would spawn at. Because it was a free for all, most of the fights weren't even. It was fun if you were winning, and it wasn't fun if you were constantly loosing.
Those were my experiences with PvP. A very mixed bag. I've come to the conclusion that the best PvP is carefully regulated. When it comes down to it, like real life, most battles are won or lost long before the forces even see each other. In a game, I want it to be about the fight, not about who has better stats, or brought more people.
As I've said, I enjoyed PvP in DAoC. That is what the game was about afterall. It also was one of the main reasons I quit that game too. PvP just doesn 't work well in RPG's. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but it tends to bring as much frustration as it does enjoyment.
Every game I've played, had some form of PvP. AC had consentual anywhere PvP. You could go to an alter and declare yourself and then have at it anywhere you wanted. Only a few die hard people did PvP. I must say the battles were fun to watch. There was one exception which I'll talk about later.
DaoC was desgined around PvP or Realm vs Realm combat. They had open RvR zones. If you went into that zone you could be attacked by other realms, your "enemies". That is similar to making the prime roots an open PvP zone.
In SWG, they had factional PvP. It was consentual for the most part. You declared yourself "overt" and you could attack and be attacked anywhere in the game. There was a second option, factional covert, where you coudn't be attacked by other players accept if you had a temperary enemy flag, which you could get by various means.
By far, DAoC had the best PvP, and yet it had its flaws. On the top of the list for all games I've played was balance. To start, level 250>100 . Everyone grinds up to max level so they can complete fairly in PvP. Not much fun getting killed over and over again by people who simply are higher level than you are. The smart player avoids the fights he can't win. Power gamers tend to rule PvP.
Once that is out of the way, then there is class or profession balance, or in Ryzom skill balance. It's a constant tweaking game of what power lets you win with ease. I can already see problems with item enchantments and other magical properties. PvP is fun when both sides get to have a chance to win. Not the first person to hit the magic "I win" button. Ranged vs Melee has been a problem in every game I've played. Things like, stun, root, mezz, plagued DAoC for its entire time. Nobody likes to be frozen the entire battle and get killed without doing anything. It's just not fun. Everyone looks for that "perfect template" that lets them dominate PvP. In AC it was OG mages. IN SWG it was a combination of, believe it or not, melee classes. In DAoC, it was a class based, group based game, but there were classes that dominated for a long time. In a game like Ryzom, where you can learn any skills, I see PvP turning out more like it did in SWG, where people find the skill set that lets them dominate and everyone will copy it.
Zzei brought up the point of rewards. In DAoC and SWG you got "realm" or "faction" points for killing a person. In DaoC that let you buy new powers. While it gave you a reason to PvP, the powerful got even more powerful. In SWG, you could buy faction bases and other things to support PvP.
These kinds of rewards led to "farming". When you need 50k realm points for the next rank and a new power, you don't care who you kill. You only get realm points for winning. One on one combat might be about your character template, group on group PvP is about putting the classes together in a way that lets you dominate. It wasn't long before someone created what was called the "gank group", a group devised of close friends solely to go out and farm realm points.
DaoC had castles in its zones you could take over. The devs tried hard to give players a reason to do this. Number one were the relics that gave an entire side a huge boost to their combat powers. A funny thing happens in a PvP game when you give players an objective, they do everything they can do avoid PvP.
I won't say I wasn't in some good castle sieges, but a great majority of the time, if you knew a castle was defended, you looked for easier meat. Let them grow bored sitting inside defending, while you go attack an undefended castle. The relic castles were super tough, it was clear that any defended relic castle was pretty much impossible to take down, so if you wanted a relic, you staged an early morning raid when most of the server was sleeping in their beds. There were prime time raids, but again, the purpose was to take the enemy completly by surprise so they coudn't muster a force to defend before you were gone. The objective was to win, not to fight players.
The best reason to PvP I saw was an event they had in AC. The story had us breaking these crystal shards during previous events. The rewards were pretty good if you did. Eventually, light dawned on many players, that breaking the shards was a bad thing. We were somehow weakening the prison of the ulitmate bad guy. So players, had the ultimate defense of the final shard. On most the other servers, the final shard fell with ease and pretty quickly. A couple, the players defended the shard for a week or two. I got to be on the lucky server, where the shard defense held for the entire month of the event. I certainly don't suggest camping 24/7, and that's what had to be done. We had shifts of players to guard the shard at all times.
There was one early morning raid, when the defense was at its ebb, and the few defenders in the room were killed, that they had their chance to destroy the shard. Luckily, for us, that did not happen and the defenders were able to rally more forces. The event created buzz and it gave people a reason to PvP.
DaoC was the only game to use open zones for combat. Those zones were pretty much empty all the time. You only went there if you were looking for a fight. There were mobs and such, but mostly you didn't go level and take the chance you would loose exp to a mob, if a gank group popped up. Gankers liked to farm the realm gates from time to time. A great majority of the fights took place at the great wall, a short distance from the fortress the bad guys would spawn at. Because it was a free for all, most of the fights weren't even. It was fun if you were winning, and it wasn't fun if you were constantly loosing.
Those were my experiences with PvP. A very mixed bag. I've come to the conclusion that the best PvP is carefully regulated. When it comes down to it, like real life, most battles are won or lost long before the forces even see each other. In a game, I want it to be about the fight, not about who has better stats, or brought more people.