Community, what community?

[mrshad]

...but if the mechanics are ill suited to balance out the war (as they are supposed to do)

PvP-for-land is never about balance between the sides. Not in this game, and not in any others.
It is, always has been, and (as far as I can forsee) always will be about the most powerful side taking over everything. It is the very nature of the game...it can not be changed. The mechanics are not supposed to balance that out...the mechanics define it. If the more powerful side can not carry the day, then the mechanics, by definition, are unbalanced.

We are fortunate on aris that the side that holds the upper hand, for the moment, is made up of really great players. Generous people that are pleasant to associate with. I fear what would happen should small-minded and vindictive people take over. Hopefully we won't have to find out.

[sprite]

I'm reminded of the story my boss told me about the Americans and the Germans playing games (football?) together during Christmas time in WWII.

Wow a whole 7 pages before a WW2 reference, I'm impressed. For future reference, it was in WW1 (not 2) and it was the Brits and the Germans. The americans wouldn't join the fight until three years later. And yes, it was football ("soccer" as americans call it).

(Edit: Apparently, there was an american one in ww2 as well, but its nowhere near as well known)

PvP-for-land is never about balance between the sides. Not in this game, and not in any others.
It is, always has been, and (as far as I can forsee) always will be about the most powerful side taking over everything. It is the very nature of the game...it can not be changed. The mechanics are not supposed to balance that out...the mechanics define it. If the more powerful side can not carry the day, then the mechanics, by definition, are unbalanced.

QFE

[jennaelf]

It is interesting, the views that a non-factioned person finds, trying to push through all the mess of threads that are full of nothing but child-like bickering.

One person said the Kami do things different than the Karavan. Then the Kami shouldn't complain about imbalance, or the Karavan being a more aggressive force (except they've fronted fewer attacks in the past few months - my guild, neutral defenders, has caught a lot of grief for defending Kara so often, so I'm pretty aware of how often we've been defending Kara instead of Kami).

Community... When I came here, I was awed by the general respect to be found, even in the PvP community. Especially in the PvP community. I saw flagged factioners come through towns fighting... but neither side would touch an AFK individual. That's respect. Whether you are a roleplayer or not, pvper or not... Leaving a character/avatar alone when the player is AFK was one of the best displays of respect I had *ever, ever* seen in PvP... And watching my first few OP battles, there was remarkably little bad mouthing... I glowed with pride when I talked to friends who play other games, about how great the Community, even the PvP aspects!, were in Ryzom...

That's sinced been smashed all to Hades and back. I have seen members of both factions behave not quite as ... respectfully as I once perceived. ... running their mouths and spamming regions with "smack talk"... killing AFK people (I don't care what your personal feelings on this are - it doesn't make a good impression and makes you appear as something of mule related species)...

To me, it doesn't matter what faction a homin is in. Jeziellia deals with them equally, until/unless given a reason not to. The Kami may be all about friendship, etc... But for a LARGE vocal majority of them?? It seems they are only interested in it if you are part of their Alliance. That's no way to convince others to JOIN your Alliance, especially younger players. I know blanket statements are never true of everyone in a group - but those who think there's a good impression being made might want to step outside the box and observe a little bit. On both sides.

I've been confronted with rude statements, when showing up to help at an OP battle, such as "It's about time" - when I was early for a battle, but not there in time for the pre-battle. That's a great impression.

This was NOT what I had experienced of the community in my earlier months (I came to the ML in September 2006, still a 'newbie').

Rushin's right. I don't even have to be an old player to see the way things are different, now that I have seen further into the OP and Faction aspect of the game. The longer I stay in it, the uglier it gets.

I'm not whining, I'm not complaining. And even though our Outpost (House Etchmarc) donates to the community, we are NOT immune to being attacked. More than one guild has talked openly about doing it. So while 'hiding' behind the safety 'exploit' has been prodded... I'd just like to point out that at least one Alliance has "prodded" it as unfair for our guild to work on making Guild alliances to protect our outpost by allying with guilds from both Alliances.

As someone who has chosen - In Character - to be Neutral... a guild or homin's allegiance to a Faction means nothing to me. But apparently having friends on one side of that war... means that I'm as good as being part of that Faction. That, naturally, pushes any neutral oriented groups/individuals toward the opposing side, strengthening it. Doesn't make much sense to me.


Done rambling, and I apologize if I wandered too far offtopic.

J'player.

[zanthar]

Although I appreciate the RP value of outposts and the fun of actual PvP within their battles, I must agree with Rushin on this.

I cannot believe that there is anything inherently wrong and harmful about "charity." What's next, claims that giving free stuff to new players is bad too? Actually, I should make that question rhetorical, because someone will surely answer "yes" and mean it...and that will be disappointing.

Katriel, I do agree that charity is a good thing, but as with everything too much of something is a bad thing! With charity after a fashion it becomes a lazyness crutch to not go out and earn something you want, but instead just sit back with your hand out and expect to be given everything!

[ajsuk]

PvP-for-land is never about balance between the sides. Not in this game, and not in any others.
It is, always has been, and (as far as I can forsee) always will be about the most powerful side taking over everything. It is the very nature of the game...it can not be changed. The mechanics are not supposed to balance that out...the mechanics define it. If the more powerful side can not carry the day, then the mechanics, by definition, are unbalanced.

QFE again.

Why bother fighting a fight which can't be won? (ie: Your side it better but the other side gets handouts for their lesser efforts)
Balance = All sides having the same available options.
The Kami can do anything the Karavan can do mechanically in game and the Karavan can do anything the Kami can do mechanically in game.
Thus it is fair.

Katriel, I do agree that charity is a good thing, but as with everything too much of something is a bad thing! With charity after a fashion it becomes a lazyness crutch to not go out and earn something you want, but instead just sit back with your hand out and expect to be given everything!

QFE
Constant safe supply which was fought for once isn't earned at all.

I don't believe the game is or has ever been anywhere near as bad as the forums might suggest. It is unfortunate things get so heated on here at times but it is indeed infact more often than not, just because we are so passionate about the game. When ideas/alterations are suggested and people truely believe they will not aid the game or would even make it worse it is their duty to say so and argue against it.

[kay22626]

unbelievable.

this thread wasnt about the flaming TS get for giving up our OP, it was a general comment about the community and the game.

well thanks so much for showing everyone so quickly how the aris community is, cant even be bothered to disagree with me, just shout and scream...

I totally agree with you Rushin. Unfortunately a community is shaped by the environment and not the other way around. Community was great in Ryzom because there was no reason not to be, because the game environment allowed players to be relaxed and friendly. With the OPs came more competition and with competition comes discord. What really scares me is the fact they planning to implement changes to the game's "economy". Im dreading this will increase competition among players even more and will push the general attitude even more towards WoW which is almost a standard in todays MMO games.
Ryzom has been a haven for a while, a place where players had no reason to fight against each other and the result was the most wonderful community to ever grace a MMO. With changes planned to the games economy and with most new content being PvP related and aimed at increasing the competition between the two factions, Ryzom takes a step towards becoming "just another MMO", losing a lot of what made this game so unique.

[mithur]

Ryzom has been a haven for a while, a place where players had no reason to fight against each other and the result was the most wonderful community to ever grace a MMO. With changes planned to the games economy and with most new content being PvP related and aimed at increasing the competition between the two factions, Ryzom takes a step towards becoming "just another MMO", losing a lot of what made this game so unique.

There is no virtue at all in being friendly and charitable when none is at game.

Ryzom have to sides: the cooperative, when all of us hunt, heal, and share. And the competitive, when all of us figth for OPs.

The merit and virtue is, for me, in being able to do fair play in war, and be friendly in cooperative. That's what makes this community so good for me.

True is, that many people have lost the temper lately in the forums. It happens, by many reasons, every two or three months. But most of the players use to make fair play, and don't come here to flame nor yell.

So, if you wanna say that the part of this community who write in this forum have decay since the OP introduction, maybe you are rigth.

But if you go in Game, and say that the whole community have decay... I'll say you are wrong. Because in the game, the people still cooperate and fair play in war. In Game I still see a wonderful community, with more merit that if the OP never have existed, because they could have a reason to don't cooperate, but they are good people, and cooperate, be kind and good with independance of the war side.

[spursfc]

I don't believe the game is or has ever been anywhere near as bad as the forums might suggest.

Unfortunately you are so wrong. I have refrained from joining any of these (let's be friendly) "debates" but.....

I know many who used to play this game, I used to play this game, there are many still within the game who do not play like they used to. We all got sold in beta, we lived and breathed this wonderful game for so long, we lived and breathed with relatively little PvP. Without a doubt, increased PvP has ruined the game for those that fell in love with it, in the early days. We all fell in love with the "Saga".

Sure, I'll concede that many play now for the PvP content it has, but hand on heart there is not a player out there, who was there at the beginning, who survived the downtimes, patch 1 etc etc who will agree that the game is better, but I bet they will all agree it has got worse.

And therein is where the problem starts, because it is those people who built this game and I am damn proud to have been one of them. Those same people built the "community" but slowly but surely as one great player leaves, as one great guild leaves or dissolves the game sinks a little bit more.

It will never ever be the game it was or the game it could have been and that is hard to take for many, including me. I did something I never ever thought I would do, I actually unsubbed my accounts. I haven't played on Aris for at least 8 mths, on Cho for 4mths. I've logged in on occasions to try and get the buzz, the drive, the thrill of playing a game! A game that possessed my life for nearly 3 years but it hasn't worked and reluctantly I have to admit that it never will now.

Ironically, I don't blame anyone. Deep down, I believe Nevrax killed the game trying to make a profit but I can't blame them for that really. They were forced to try and make money. Their choices were bad ones and we all know what happened after that. Maybe GF will turn it around but I doubt it. I would love to be proved wrong and would re-sub at the drop of a hat. I live in hope..........

In the meantime, I salute all those who have stood by the game, who are still playing, who are still trying to make it the game we all wanted it to be. You know who you are and you will always command my greatest respect because it was YOU who made this game what it was.

And now I will stop rambling, its a goddam game, why do I feel the urge to cry like a baby...............................................

Snake (Aris) R.I.P - Pliskin (Aris) R.I.P
Clyde (Cho) R.I.P - Bonnie (Cho) R.I.P

[sprite]

Sure, I'll concede that many play now for the PvP content it has, but hand on heart there is not a player out there, who was there at the beginning, who survived the downtimes, patch 1 etc etc who will agree that the game is better, but I bet they will all agree it has got worse.

*Raises hand* I think the game itself is much better now than before "Patch 1".

[varelse]

The community that I experience and participate in every day when I log in, is still wonderful. Kami, Karavan, neutral or undecided alike, homins still help each other, chat, greet friends and make the game what it has been for me from day one - a second home

I still have friends from both factions (and many neutrals also) and still team, share, trek, gossip and laugh with them as I always did. I regret that this is no longer true for some other players, but the reality is that the Ryzom community remains among the best I've ever been part of