One year - Changes and lack of changes WTF

[Fred1l1]

I tend to agree with raynes just based on why I left personally. I played since open beta and stuck with the game for over a year. The problem wasn't what they added (the patch...while it wasn't good, it wasn't a huge heartbreak imo), it was what they DIDNT add. The features that were on the box, never even made it into the game, or not until over a year after it came out. I left due to boredom, no more, no less.

All of the 'extra' stuff, that happened once a week at best, and were usually player-driven, weren't enough to keep off of the constant grind that the game became for me. The best fun i had was trying to get groups through the roots back when kitin patrols were still around...good times

As a once-active member and officer of a guild (eye of wonder then merged to eye of atys) and in the community in general, I still couldn't find enough to just keep me BUSY, and when i wasn't busy, the grind set in. That i could settle for a while, but when there is nothing new, and nothing that you were hoping for in the game in general, then it just got too boring.

Everything they add helps the game, makes things different, adds a new level of SOMETHING to do. I think R2 will be a huge step for the people to have something to do, more often. Hopefully this will keep the people that have been around for a while, and might be getting bored as i was, to stay with more things to do.

My 2 cents.

[raynes]

Here's where you're missing the point.
Ryzom doesn't need to be a huge success, it just needs to be a success. To be a huge success it would have to compromise everything that makes it good and it would need a massive cash injection. It partly depends on how you measure success as well. Is success solely measured in cash terms and subscribers or can it also be measured in innovation, artistic merit and other factors?

It's a business. It's measured in cash terms (which is the same as subscriber numbers). Ryzom isn't a huge success, I'd even go so far as to say it's not a success at all. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it's hardly a success in terms of mmo's.

2. Licences - Since you bring it up... everyone always thinks licences are going to make the huge difference in my industry, they don't and if you look at computer game history it rarely works out there either. I can count the decent Star Trek or Star Wars licensed games on the fingers of one foot. In the TTRPG world the most successful licensed games were, probably, Buffy/Angel and Babylon 5. Other than that I'm hard pressed to think of any you'd even see in a games shop.

Successful Star Wars Games:
* Star Wars: Empire at War (2006) Windows
* Star Wars: Battlefront (2004) PlayStation 2, Windows, Xbox, Apple Macintosh
* Star Wars: Battlefront II (2005) PlayStation 2, Windows, Xbox, PlayStation Portable
* Star Wars: Dark Forces (1995) MS-DOS, Macintosh, PlayStation
* Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (1997) Windows
o Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith (expansion) (1998) Windows
* Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (2002) Windows, Macintosh, Xbox, Nintendo GameCube
* Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (2003) Windows, Macintosh, Xbox

* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003) Windows, Xbox, Macintosh
* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords (2004) Windows, Xbox

* X-Wing (1993) MS-DOS, Macintosh
o B-Wing (expansion) (1993)
o Imperial Pursuit (expansion) (1993)
o X-Wing: Collector's CD-ROM (1994)
* TIE Fighter (1994) Windows, Macintosh
o TIE Fighter: Defender of the Empire (expansion) (1994)
o TIE Fighter: Collector's CD-ROM (1995)
* Star Wars: X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter (1997) Windows
o Balance of Power (expansion) (1997)
o X-Wing Collector Series (1998)
* X-Wing Alliance (1999) Windows

* Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (1996) (TPS) Nintendo 64, Windows
* Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1992) (Platform) NES
* Star Wars Trilogy Arcade (1998) (Rail shooter) Arcade
* Super Empire Strikes Back (1993) (Platform) SNES
* Super Return of the Jedi (1994) (Platform) SNES
* Super Star Wars (1992) (Platform) SNES

* Lego Star Wars: The Video Game (2005), (TPS) Windows, PlayStation 2, Xbox, Nintendo GameCube, Game Boy Advance, Macintosh
* Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy (Coming fall 2006), (TPS) Windows, PlayStation 2, PSP, Xbox, Xbox 360, Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo DS, Game Boy Advance, Macintosh
* Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds (2001) (RTS) Windows, Macintosh
o Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Wars Campaign (2002) Windows, Macintosh


You must have a lot of "fingers on one foot". 29 to be exact.

[grimjim]

It's a business. It's measured in cash terms (which is the same as subscriber numbers). Ryzom isn't a huge success, I'd even go so far as to say it's not a success at all. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it's hardly a success in terms of mmo's.

Your criteria for 'success' when it comes to Starwars games is apparently the equivalent of 'published'.

*sigh* Cash is not the only terms for success, it would be a very sad world if it were.

[raynes]

Your criteria for 'success' when it comes to Starwars games is apparently the equivalent of 'published'.

*sigh* Cash is not the only terms for success, it would be a very sad world if it were.

Hardly each of the games I listed not only sold large number of copies, but were given high praise when reviewed. I purposely left out a large number of them because they weren't successes. Here is a more complete list:

Empire at War (RTS):

* Star Wars: Empire at War (2006) Windows
o Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption (expansion) (2006) Windows

Battlefront series (FPS)

* Star Wars: Battlefront (2004) PlayStation 2, Windows, Xbox, Apple Macintosh
* Star Wars: Battlefront II (2005) PlayStation 2, Windows, Xbox, PlayStation Portable

Dark Forces series (FPS)

* Star Wars: Dark Forces (1995) MS-DOS, Macintosh, PlayStation
* Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (1997) Windows
o Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith (expansion) (1998) Windows
* Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (2002) Windows, Macintosh, Xbox, Nintendo GameCube
* Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (2003) Windows, Macintosh, Xbox

Galaxies series (MMORPG)

* Star Wars: Galaxies: An Empire Divided (2003) Windows
o Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed (2004)
o Star Wars Galaxies: Episode III Rage of the Wookies (2005)
o Star Wars Galaxies: The Total Experience (2005)
o Star Wars Galaxies: Trials of Obi-Wan (2005)
o Star Wars Galaxies: Starter Kit (2005)

Knights of the Old Republic series (RPG)

* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003) Windows, Xbox, Macintosh
* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords (2004) Windows, Xbox

Rebel Assault series (Rail shooter)

* Star Wars: Rebel Assault (1994) Windows, Macintosh, Sega CD, 3DO
* Star Wars: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire (1995) Windows, PlayStation, Macintosh

Rogue Squadron series (Space flight simulator)

* Star Wars: Rogue Squadron (1998) Windows, Nintendo 64
* Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader (2001) Nintendo GameCube
* Star Wars Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike (2003) Nintendo GameCube

X-wing computer game series (Space flight simulator)

* X-Wing (1993) MS-DOS, Macintosh
o B-Wing (expansion) (1993)
o Imperial Pursuit (expansion) (1993)
o X-Wing: Collector's CD-ROM (1994)
* TIE Fighter (1994) Windows, Macintosh
o TIE Fighter: Defender of the Empire (expansion) (1994)
o TIE Fighter: Collector's CD-ROM (1995)
* Star Wars: X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter (1997) Windows
o Balance of Power (expansion) (1997)
o X-Wing Collector Series (1998)
* X-Wing Alliance (1999) Windows

[edit]

Non-series games

Prequel trilogy
(these games are set in the timeframe of the Star Wars prequel films)

* Star Wars: Battle for Naboo (2000) Nintendo 64, Windows
* Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (2002) PlayStation 2, Nintendo GameCube
* Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2002) PlayStation 2, GameCube, Xbox
* Star Wars: The Clone Wars & Tetris Worlds
* Star Wars: Droid Works (1999) Windows
* Star Wars: Episode I: Jedi Power Battles (2000) PlayStation, Sega Dreamcast, Game Boy Advance
* Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace (1999)
* Star Wars: Episode I Racer (1999) (Racing) Windows, Macintosh, Sega Dreamcast, Nintendo 64
* Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones (2002) Game Boy Advance
* Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (2005) (TPS) PlayStation 2, Xbox
* Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter (2002) Xbox, Playstation 2
* Star Wars: Obi-Wan (2001) (TPS) Xbox
* Star Wars: Racer Revenge (2002) (Racing) PlayStation 2
* Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005) (FPS) Windows, Xbox
* Star Wars: Starfighter (2001) Windows, Playstation 2
o Star Wars: Starfighter Special Edition (2001) version for Xbox
* Star Wars: Super Bombad Racing (2001) PlayStation 2
* Star Wars Episode II: The New Droid Army (????) Game Boy Advance

Classic trilogy
(these games are set in the timeframe of the original Star Wars films)

* Star Wars (1991) (Platform) NES
* Star Wars (1995) Game Gear
* Star Wars Arcade Arcade, Sega 32x
* Star Wars: Demolition (2000) (Racing) PlayStation, Dreamcast
* Star Wars: Force Commander (2000) (RTS) Windows
* Star Wars: Masters of Teräs Käsi (1997) (Fighting) PlayStation
* Star Wars: Rebellion (1998) (RTS) Windows
* Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (1996) (TPS) Nintendo 64, Windows
* Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1992) (Platform) NES
* Star Wars Trilogy Arcade (1998) (Rail shooter) Arcade
* Star Wars: Yoda Stories (1997) (Adventure) Windows, Game Boy
* Super Empire Strikes Back (1993) (Platform) SNES
* Super Return of the Jedi (1994) (Platform) SNES
* Super Star Wars (1992) (Platform) SNES

Both trilogies
(these games are set in the timeframes of both Star Wars trilogies)

* Lego Star Wars: The Video Game (2005), (TPS) Windows, PlayStation 2, Xbox, Nintendo GameCube, Game Boy Advance, Macintosh
* Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy (Coming fall 2006), (TPS) Windows, PlayStation 2, PSP, Xbox, Xbox 360, Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo DS, Game Boy Advance, Macintosh
* Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds (2001) (RTS) Windows, Macintosh
o Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Wars Campaign (2002) Windows, Macintosh

[grimjim]

Hardly each of the games I listed not only sold large number of copies, but were given high praise when reviewed. I purposely left out a large number of them because they weren't successes. Here is a more complete list:

And even many of the ones in your original list were _panned_.

You can note a common thread in the few that can be considered genuine successes though, that concurs with my observation above.

Either they place the player in the position of the main story (something you can't do with an MMO set in an established universe) or they remove themselves from the main universe and go off somewhere where they have room to play (KOTOR) again, something you can't really do in an MMO based upon the franchise. Starwars has faired - somewhat - better than Star Trek, I'll give you that but even if I were to concede most of these it wouldn't make a damn's worth of difference to what happened with SWG or what will happen to any game that tries to chase the WoW buck at the expense of its existing market.

[raynes]

And even many of the ones in your original list were _panned_.

You can note a common thread in the few that can be considered genuine successes though, that concurs with my observation above.

Either they place the player in the position of the main story (something you can't do with an MMO set in an established universe) or they remove themselves from the main universe and go off somewhere where they have room to play (KOTOR) again, something you can't really do in an MMO based upon the franchise. Starwars has faired - somewhat - better than Star Trek, I'll give you that but even if I were to concede most of these it wouldn't make a damn's worth of difference to what happened with SWG or what will happen to any game that tries to chase the WoW buck at the expense of its existing market.

It's not a matter of chasing WoW's buck. It's a matter of producing mmo's that are [/b]massive multiplayer online games. Massive in having large number of players. SWG never got the massive number of players it should have. And to bring this discussion back to Ryzom, nor has it.

I think most will agree that R2 will help improve the game. Players will create some content. The real question is if the devs will use the tools to produce more lands, better quests and scenarios, and push the story forward. Or will they repeat the past and continue developing experimental things, that in all reality will not produce the new subscriber numbers they need. Judging from the new player experience and the Kitin Lair, I hope it's the former.

[grimjim]

It's not a matter of chasing WoW's buck. It's a matter of producing mmo's that are [/b]massive multiplayer online games. Massive in having large number of players. SWG never got the massive number of players it should have. And to bring this discussion back to Ryzom, nor has it.

I think most will agree that R2 will help improve the game. Players will create some content. The real question is if the devs will use the tools to produce more lands, better quests and scenarios, and push the story forward. Or will they repeat the past and continue developing experimental things, that in all reality will not produce the new subscriber numbers they need. Judging from the new player experience and the Kitin Lair, I hope it's the former.

Massive doesn't have to mean enormous, it just means a lot of players acting within the same world, so long as that's more people than go on RTS or FPS servers you're probably safe calling it an MMORPG. Even Neverwinter is arguably (and more so than GW or DDO) an MMORPG and that's pretty limited in numbers at one time.

I think more lands would be a mistake, while the game is growing the lands are already big and there's a definite bias towards one particular race making the others seem thinly spread by comparison. Add more lands - of significant size - and the playerbase will be so thinly spread the game will seem far more empty than it actually is.

Quests? Hell no. Encyclopaedia stuff and missions that make sense to be repeatable? Better live events? Sure.

I'm still intensely dubious on the whole Kitin Lair thing, it seems like it could be another mistake like the other 'normal' MMO content. Some polish on the OPs would be nice and then moving forward with similar 'toy' content to the Ring would still, IMO, be best practice. Trying to do a full production of Tommy when you only have a banjo isn't going to go too well, Deliverance on the other hand...

[truce1]

It's not a matter of chasing WoW's buck. It's a matter of producing mmo's that are [/b]massive multiplayer online games. Massive in having large number of players. SWG never got the massive number of players it should have. And to bring this discussion back to Ryzom, nor has it.

I think most will agree that R2 will help improve the game. Players will create some content. The real question is if the devs will use the tools to produce more lands, better quests and scenarios, and push the story forward. Or will they repeat the past and continue developing experimental things, that in all reality will not produce the new subscriber numbers they need. Judging from the new player experience and the Kitin Lair, I hope it's the former.

uhhhhhh..... At the time (Pre-WOW) SWG had the most players of any game...

At that time 500,000 was nothing to scoff at. (and that current subscriptions, not all time like they used for EQ1)

I still don't think it is.

[sx4rlet]

Although I can understand you two both trying to prove a point, I'm not sure the whole starwars collection you two have, helps in this case...

What is next? The whole [name] Quest series from Sierra?

[raynes]

uhhhhhh..... At the time (Pre-WOW) SWG had the most players of any game...

At that time 500,000 was nothing to scoff at. (and that current subscriptions, not all time like they used for EQ1)

I still don't think it is.

Sorry your wrong. SWG never had over 300K subscribers.
http://www.mmorpgchart.com/Chart2.html