Ryzom

kheez wrote: Now maybe this post is in vain, and I'll just have to deal with it... but it seems that there is a huge imbalance. The karavan outnumber the kami greatly, and according to the OP list, the Kami own 6 of the 28 OP's. (according to the info I was given on which guilds are of what faction).

Imho, leaving factors as being willing to take part in PvP or not aside, although playstyles can also explain a few things, I think it is too bold to generalize: saying "Karavan players seem more PvP inclined" well, I'm usure about this, maybe since the Karavan population is larger, it does give the impression. Could it be said that the number of owned outposts is a simply direct consequence of population imbalance, and the simplistic (although not enforced) bipolar faction-based nature of the OPs (favoured by its release after EP2 and the contextual text around them). So rather than asking "why do Karavan own more OPs" ask "why do Karavan have more players". That said, the same thing could also happen at different scales too: if it was race based, then the race with more supporters could have an advantage, and if it was guild based, the biggest guilds would, *but* imho the smaller granularity would allow for better and more dynamic alliances.


With the current setting, and going back to the faction imbalance, looking at chronicles and the steele of valor ( a failry accurate view of active population at that moment and faction allegiance) and personal subjective opinion, during EP2 things were more balanced, averaged, barred the factual imbalances over shorter periods of time due to timezone differences. I do think that browsing over player names, Kami have suffered from more departures (personal guesstimate, may be completely unfounded), and the reasons may be several. Whether this is a permanent trend, or it will get balanced with time is a good question, and one may ask why no measures to control population balance (if needed) have been taken. The same thing happens with Zoraï. Asking a player to stick with the underdog race or faction for later greater good is a possibility, but not easy.

So it would seem that whenever an OP battle takes place, the Karavan always win. Thus the stronger only get stronger, as the Kami get frustrated and leave, or chose not to fight due to the absurdity of the odds against them. I was told that many friends in game were lost due to this OP imbalance and the fighting that has ensued.

Although leaving OPs aside and quitting game are not exactly the same thing, yes there are been losses due to OPs features, it's been discussed in the past and yes, although leaving OPs aside is a possiblity that denies some kind of "content" for those not willing to take part in it, it is still a possibility.

The current OP situation was (as with spires) an foreseeable consequence of this game feature, although I'm unsure if this has been thought of or not. (my comments about spires being a risk-minigame and the consequences of one side winning date to the first announcement).

As stated elsewhere, it is still unclear wheter the faction war (and we will see with OPs then) is supposed to last forever or not.

New players discover this, and many want a sure footing in their new game, and go with the "big dog" karavan so they can benefit from the OP rewards. There may be few who side with the kami knowing about the OP situation, but as we can see, Karavan is only getting stronger.

Although personally I think that picking a side in order to simply get hold of op goodies is imho not a good choice, and knowing that being in a faction does not automatically grant you op rewards (friendship, dedication, etc. does) it can be deceiving as well.

This imbalance has turned into a vicious cycle, where one side will only get stronger at the expense of the other side getting weaker. There is no honor in this. There is no challenge in this. The only solution is for more Kami to come back, or sign up, or more karavan leave, or side with Kami... but why would anyone do that?

This is assuming that the OPs are supposed to be an invariant, PvP-only passtime, with no foreseen faction war outcome, no other variants of OPs based on no-PvP activities and the lack of other means to get equivalent OP rewards. If other means (Ring?) are available to get them, what will happen? will OPs stagnate even more, leading to a steady, static situation? this has been discussed, suggesting more GvG settings, but it is not straightforward either.

Anyway, I dont have a solution. I'm just a bit frustrated as an older player (still very new to the game though) and have to make a decison of leaving my homeland and people in order to benefit from the "new content" to the game, or just deal with not having or participating in those new benefits.

It is unclear to me wether this is trend is stable or not. More and more players with the same number of Outposts also means less share for individuals, tensions, etc. Population also comes and goes, and newer addons (ring, kitin lair?) may provide alternative means to obtain them. How many players would forget about outposts if they could obtain the same things at roughly the same effort elsewhere?


Relevant threads too:

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.p ... t=Outposts

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.p ... t=Outposts

grimjim wrote: It just confirms that the Kami players are, as a whole, due to various factors less interested in PvP but will turn out in reasonable numbers for a defence, but not a 'non-essential' attack.

I'm unsure about this and imho a generalization. This can be true from an absolute point of view (counting the number of players), but maybe not in relative terms to the population. Also, note that there were Kami guilds very PvP oriented, I may mention, CP, DCP, Infinity. Some of those left out of boredom, simply.

I just don't agree with "Karavan are more aggressive and PvP oriented" and "Kami are..." : biased, unfounded (show the numbers) and generalizing.

apart from false declarations - but that may just be another side effect of the numbers issue. More people just means a higher percentage of asshats, even if proportional and the Kami haven't had much to gloat about.

Exactly my point, not referring specifically to behavior, but to most aspects of the game. I cannot say "Matis are more inclined to be mages" just simply because if I count the number of mages there are more Matisian mages.

Well first off nobody needs an excuse to attack OPs so getting bored or whatever is something else. However, an outpost under your guilds control might as well have a full sized billboard erected on it, saying "Click me!" (rather than kick me) to me.

As for OP region banter, you'll find I keep relatively quiet if the battle is a good one. It's when the aggro dragging, neutral healing, etc starts up I get ticked. (On either side)

iphdrunk wrote: It is unclear to me wether this is trend is stable or not. More and more players with the same number of Outposts also means less share for individuals, tensions, etc. Population also comes and goes, and newer addons (ring, kitin lair?) may provide alternative means to obtain them. How many players would forget about outposts if they could obtain the same things at roughly the same effort elsewhere?

I know I sure as hell wouldnt get involved in OPs so much if this were so...

The problem is as a result of said stagnant factors resulting in tiny guilds holding OPs (eg Guardians of Jena) the effort -> reward balance is skewed. Honestly, for at _most_ 4 hours every week or two you effectively gain access to dozens of grind-hours via crystals. As is, can you imagine a 2-4 hour digging grind a week producing say 10 stacks of crystals? (And I know characters getting this many or more).

The crystals are what really makes OPs a problem, OP mats are cool, but like Sup Zun amps vs Excellent, you don't get _that_ much benefit outside very specific situations.

Hmmm well, not surprised to see this thread has decended into yet another pointless PvP which faction did what "debate".

Blah blah you're bad.

Blah blah no you're badder.

Blah blah propoganda.

Blah blah counter propoganda.

Blah blah blah.



The only vicious circle is this pointless never ending "we're so much better than you are" debate that surfaces everytime anyone makes the mistake of mentioning PvP or OPs. Maybe one day you'll give it a rest but I seriously doubt it.

Wow, yet again another mildly pointless OP battle thread. where dispite some peoples best intrests, and tyring to explain their views. Ultimately it will end up no where. The people who are writing in this thread (allbeit the latter half) are people who are very strong willed and regardless of wether they are right or wrong (far be it from me to say who is right or wrong, but i think u know what i mean) - They will refuse to yield.

How many more times do we have to listen to "the usual suspects" throwing their toys out of the pram.

sarcasim wrote:The whole of Atys knows that your are the only voice of reason.

Yet you continue to post and rant pretty mucht he same things over and over.

BTW this is not directed at anyone particular person (or faction)

Maybe when people have somthing different to say then these threads will be more interesting to read....

kheez wrote: We am now returning, but have discovered that the world we once knew has changed greatly.

ffxjosh wrote: continue to post and rant pretty mucht he same things over and over.

Maybe when people have somthing different to say then these threads will be more interesting to read....

Well the Forums remain familiar I guess Kheez

EDIT - I have not been ingame long enough to build any high skills, Is the OP battles fought by high level combat participants only ?...
At what level is it viable to actively participate in these battles ?

mugendo wrote:Well the Forums remain familiar I guess Kheez

EDIT - I have not been ingame long enough to build any high skills, Is the OP battles fought by high level combat participants only ?...
At what level is it viable to actively participate in these battles ?

If you hae a heal spell. then consider yourself useful

Generally speaking if you want to use offsenive skills level 175+ is used. but there are healers of all skills right from lvl 30 to lvl 250 involved in outpost battles.


(please note i am speaking from experience of the Kami side. tho i am sure the Karavan dont mind having "low" level players helping out )

Tyilin

xxx

Bah I snapped and ranted didn't I?
oh well
I think im just going to avoid and threads with OP or PvP in the title in future lol...
This is daft really.
We should just get on with it and stop ***** on forums about it..
thats my new plan anyways...
*puts toys back in pram*

ffxjosh wrote:If you hae a heal spell. then consider yourself useful

*points to home made useful badge on jacket*

Thankyou for the quick response.